Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Not relevant to the "Where after Chad?" thread in Overseas

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Vanguard View Post
    Dont lecture on the ethnic make up of the BA, how many Poles and Nigerians are in the Irish army then ? The BA has numerous commonwealth soldiers. Considering one in 4 males in the UK has a criminal conviction, 8% when taken as part of a bigger stat is not that bad. So you expect me to believe BA officers slagged off there own men to you ?
    Poles and Nigerians are Polish and Nigerian, not Irish. I'm talking about British citizens who faces don't fit in BA and you know that's what I mean. It's been well documented by the BA themselves with certain regiments worse offenders than others. Why would an Army recruit foreign nationals instead of its own citizens? Are you trying to be like the French Foreign Legion?

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Vanguard View Post
      Standard of the troops ? you have overweight 55 yr old NCOs, please dont take the pee.
      There's overweight Brit NCO's posting on this very site and they're nowhere near 55.

      Please don't take the pee.

      There's bad apple's in both organisations, as I'm sure there is in militaries all over the world. These pissing contests really solve nothing.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Vanguard View Post
        No its you thats saying a lad with a conviction for something like assault or affrey cannot make a good infantry soldier. When infact events like the Falklands showed such personalities often make the best combat soldiers.

        Once again you claim the BA has a lower standard, having qualifications does not make someone a good infantryman and to judge an infantrymans combat effectivness on intellectualism shows just how very different the BA and Irish army are in training ethos and their defined roles.

        Physically some in the Irish army dont look up to soldiering.

        http://picasaweb.google.com/OpsOffic...94013242612626


        http://picasaweb.google.com/OpsOffic...93083056904210
        I'm saying why take the risk? Unless it's needs must. If you had enough suitable applicants without criminal convictions then why in Gods name would you recruit a criminal instead of a non criminal. You recruit them because you have to, not because you choose to.

        Funny I knew you'd mention the Falklands and that goes to the essence of you problem. It's a different world now. The opposition isn't some terrified conscript, in another uniform where you can cut off their ears and keep them as souvenirs. It's not 1982 anymore, the modern world requires more sophisticated soldiering and less brute force and ignorance. More the RM ethos and less the Para ethos.

        I didn't mention intellectual prowess as a determinant of combat effectiveness. Even a complete thicko can have moral fibre and he's a better option than a smart thug. But there's the same point again. It's much more complex now than 'combat' skills and that goes the whole way down to the Pte soldier.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Vanguard View Post


          War Effort Hampered By Troops Too Unfit to Fight
          http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/au...besity-fitness
          "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

          Comment


          • #50
            REPLY- Vanguard.



            This was in 2006 when the situation in Afghanistan rapidly changed from peacekeeping to counter insurgency and open warfare. British units had to rapidly reconfigure for a role they had not been deployed for and were lacking in equipment for such a role.[/QUOTE
            ]


            Vanguard,RGJ,
            Perhaps if someone took notice when a decent professional soldier such as Col. Nick Henderson of the Coldstream Guards resigns- I reiterate- there seem to be no lessons learnt. You both consider my contribution to be anti-British rhetoric but Nick Henderson, Tim Collins and many others are saying exactly the same thing. It just goes to prove that you cannot claim to be serious soldiers when for instance, RGJ quite clearly did not know what the CO of the Rifles Battle Group had been saying at RUSI.

            And RGJ chooses not to reply to my posting about a failed composite op. near Sangin which comprised 30 men from 13 arms. But maybe it will help to stop him bragging.


            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...f-his-men.html

            And Col.Henderson was not alone in resigning- there were many others.
            Last edited by timhorgan; 7 April 2010, 16:26.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Jessup View Post
              I'm saying why take the risk? Unless it's needs must. If you had enough suitable applicants without criminal convictions then why in Gods name would you recruit a criminal instead of a non criminal. You recruit them because you have to, not because you choose to.

              Funny I knew you'd mention the Falklands and that goes to the essence of you problem. It's a different world now. The opposition isn't some terrified conscript, in another uniform where you can cut off their ears and keep them as souvenirs. It's not 1982 anymore, the modern world requires more sophisticated soldiering and less brute force and ignorance. More the RM ethos and less the Para ethos.

              I didn't mention intellectual prowess as a determinant of combat effectiveness. Even a complete thicko can have moral fibre and he's a better option than a smart thug. But there's the same point again. It's much more complex now than 'combat' skills and that goes the whole way down to the Pte soldier.

              So your now qualified to offer a combat critique of the Parachute Regiment from your armchair and tell us their shortcomings on the modern battlefield ?

              What do you think 1 Paras/Special forces support group role is if its not sophisticated ?

              The Parachute regiment fights battles usually outnumbered and often behind enemy lines, the Irish army does cash escorts, prison duties and UN peace ops, lets leave it at that shall we.
              Last edited by Vanguard; 7 April 2010, 16:50.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                limited pool to pick from?

                we are almost reaching full manning levels and now only 'Grade A' applicants (explained in other threads) are bing accepted into certain regiments.

                when i joined the British Army in 1989 - there were only 2 of us out of 6 from the Republic who passed selection and i'm pretty sure none of us were 'bottom feeders' as you put it.

                the British Army has the luxury of being able to recruit from the UK, the Republic of Ireland and 54 other independent states including Canada, Australia and New Zealand - so tell me how that is a 'limited pool'?

                seems only having 32 counties to recruit from is a pretty 'limited pool' compared to 56 countries.

                you are clutching at straws here Jessup - come back to me when you have something decent and credible to snipe at us about.


                Mostly now all grade 'A'. Why not all grade 'A'. You prove my point in your own post. Almost reaching full manning levels, even with all the 'mercenaries' from South Africa, Fiji, Nepal etc. The problems you do have would just be so much worse without the likes of guys like Beharry and those in the same cohort.

                Certain regiments? Why not all regiments? A real case for 'Pic n Mix' when going overseas then if it's a certain regiment. We all know about the Royal Green Jackets role as the 'penal regiment'. I'd say if you asked the Jensen family they'd have liked the BA to do some 'Pic n Mix' before that deployment to Cyprus. It wasn't as if those lads hadn't some serious previous form prior to deployment.

                It's not a luxury that you recruit from anywhere you can. It's a necessity. Even with such a 'luxury' either the individuals or the organisation (or both) is so dysfunctional that 8% of those in prison are ex services and most of them ex infantry.

                You're the one clutching at straws RGJ. Like any sniper (which perfectly describes most of your posts here) you don't like counter sniping. The point here is both decent and credible. You're so brainwashed you can't accept any criticism of the BA at all.
                Last edited by Jessup; 7 April 2010, 16:44.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Vanguard View Post
                  So your now qualified to offer a combat critique of the Parachute Regiment from your armchair and tell us their shortcomings on the modern battlefield ?

                  The Parachute regiment fights battles usually outnumbered and often behind enemy lines, the Irish army does cash escorts, prison duties and UN peace ops, lets leave it at that shall we.
                  From my own experience in the UK and every Irish officer that I know that has been on the PCBC and every Irish Sgt that I know who did the PSBC they say the same thing about the Paras and RM. They probably represent to the two extreme ethos in the BA. In the current landscape the latter is the appropriate one. I don't think even the most junior marine wouldn't have had the intelligence to analyse the ramifications and subsequent recruitment bonanza for the PIRA by the actions of Bloody Sunday. Both the Marine and Para would have had the combat skills to shoot the protesters, the difference would be the skills about whether they should shoot the protesters.

                  The theme of the OP is the supposed inferiority of the Irish DF 'Pic n Mix' system. I mean what idiot decided to send most agressive regiment in the BA into the Bogside. A bit of 'Pic n Mix' would have prevented a long drawn out campaign there.

                  When was the last time the Parachute Regiment fought behind enemy lines? Was it Arnhem? Where are the enemy lines that they are fighting behind in Iraq and Afghanistan? If there are such enemy lines, is everyone not behind them? The paradigm (get it?) has moved on. A one size fits all approach is a thing of the past. You have to 'Pic n Mix'

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Jessup View Post
                    From my own experience in the UK and every Irish officer that I know that has been on the PCBC and every Irish Sgt that I know who did the PSBC they say the same thing about the Paras and RM. They probably represent to the two extreme ethos in the BA. In the current landscape the latter is the appropriate one. I don't think even the most junior marine wouldn't have had the intelligence to analyse the ramifications and subsequent recruitment bonanza for the PIRA by the actions of Bloody Sunday. Both the Marine and Para would have had the combat skills to shoot the protesters, the difference would be the skills about whether they should shoot the protesters.

                    The theme of the OP is the supposed inferiority of the Irish DF 'Pic n Mix' system. I mean what idiot decided to send most agressive regiment in the BA into the Bogside. A bit of 'Pic n Mix' would have prevented a long drawn out campaign there.

                    When was the last time the Parachute Regiment fought behind enemy lines? Was it Arnhem? Where are the enemy lines that they are fighting behind in Iraq and Afghanistan? If there are such enemy lines, is everyone not behind them? The paradigm (get it?) has moved on. A one size fits all approach is a thing of the past. You have to 'Pic n Mix'

                    Their official role is to operate often behind enemy lines, last time was in FOBs in Helmand in 2006 where they cut off for weeks on end.

                    Your saying 1 paras SFSG role is not sophisticated ?

                    Bloody Sunday was nearly 40 yrs ago, obviously things have moved on since then.

                    The RMs were also involved in controversal shootings in NI.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by concussion View Post


                      War Effort Hampered By Troops Too Unfit to Fight
                      http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/au...besity-fitness
                      The military is a reflection of the society it serves. American, British, Irish and pretty much every other western society has an over representation of fat fcuks. To think the military would be exempt from that is ridiculous, it's not the fault of the organisation they can only do so much, the trained soldier expecially one destined for a two way firing range should have the cop on to go easy on the kebabs

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Jessup View Post
                        Mostly now all grade 'A'. Why not all grade 'A'. You prove my point in your own post. Almost reaching full manning levels, even with all the 'mercenaries' from South Africa, Fiji, Nepal etc. The problems you do have would just be so much worse without the likes of guys like Beharry and those in the same cohort.

                        Certain regiments? Why not all regiments? A real case for 'Pic n Mix' when going overseas then if it's a certain regiment. We all know about the Royal Green Jackets role as the 'penal regiment'. I'd say if you asked the Jensen family they'd have liked the BA to do some 'Pic n Mix' before that deployment to Cyprus. It wasn't as if those lads hadn't some serious previous form prior to deployment.

                        It's not a luxury that you recruit from anywhere you can. It's a necessity. Even with such a 'luxury' either the individuals or the organisation (or both) is so dysfunctional that 8% of those in prison are ex services and most of them ex infantry.

                        You're the one clutching at straws RGJ. Like any sniper (which perfectly describes most of your posts here) you don't like counter sniping. The point here is both decent and credible. You're so brainwashed you can't accept any criticism of the BA at all.
                        must be 'cos i'm dysfunctional and may be about to join the other 8% of those in prison

                        our soldiers are part of an Army that has been engaged in aggressive combat operations almost constantly.

                        it would be nice if all we had to do was Peace Keeping operations but sadly it's a big bad world out there and our lads have been involved in a lot of it as belligerent forces. you guys are excellent at Peace Keeping operations and should be commended for this.

                        however that (being involved in combat particularly as part of the belligerent forces) changes a man and sometimes the tilt switch is triggered later on in life too. it's not an excuse - it's a fact.

                        if you ever see Aldershot or Colchester or Catterick on a Saturday night then you might wonder why we haven't got a much higher percentage in prison! one thing we can do well is fight.

                        anyhow - please explain "We all know about the Royal Green Jackets role as the 'penal regiment'" - because as a Rifleman in that battalion (and not the only one on this Forum) who knew Ford, Fowler and Pernell personally, drank with them often and served with them in the Falklands before we returned to Cyprus and they killed Louise Jensen - this 'penal regiment' role is new to me. maybe that is also because i am brainwashed with Red, Black and Green but who is the 'all' in 'we all know'?!
                        Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 7 April 2010, 17:28.
                        RGJ

                        ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                        The Rifles

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Vanguard View Post
                          Their official role is to operate often behind enemy lines, last time was in FOBs in Helmand in 2006 where they cut off for weeks on end.
                          Is everyone in a FOB not behind enemy lines and they'll all get cut off at some stage, except maybe by air?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by CS Gass View Post
                            The military is a reflection of the society it serves. American, British, Irish and pretty much every other western society has an over representation of fat fcuks. To think the military would be exempt from that is ridiculous, it's not the fault of the organisation they can only do so much, the trained soldier expecially one destined for a two way firing range should have the cop on to go easy on the kebabs
                            I actually do expect the military to be exempt, due to the nature of the role. The military should be a reflection of the society; racially, religiously, socio-economically but not physically.

                            While I don't generally descend to petty insults, that post was a reply to Vanguards selectively posting Reservists in order to portray the Defence Forces.
                            "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Its unfair to describe recruits into the BA as jail fodder. People tend to forget that there are lots of differences between Ireland and the UK. There are lots of offences where you'd get locked up in the uk that in ireland you wouldn't, (which isn't always a bad thing) and the Uk has the highest rate of imprisonment in Europe.

                              Ireland doesn't have the same number of failed council estates that Wales, parts of London or the North of England has, (although they do exist). Levels of education in the uk, (unless you can pay for private school) are lower, cohesion in the family, even things like involvement in social and charitable organisations, levels of church membership, all produce differences in society and lots of people would claim that new Labour has abandoned the white working class in the UK.

                              There are very few 18 year olds in either the UK or Ireland who are unfamilar with drugs. To be honest, its socially probably more acceptable in some walks of life to do a line of coke then smoke a cigarette. Those who follow the newspapers will be familar with the fuss in the uk over banning legal highs as well as head shops in Ireland (there is one opposite the entrance to CBB), its an inescapable fact that drugs are a part of society in a way they weren't 20 years ago. An army has to reflect the society it recruits from, and a string of minor convictions, or smoking cannabis before you join up doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to turn out bad or evil or make a bad soldier.

                              The class system is also more prevelant there, not many sandhurst graduates from comprehensive schools, and that also affects recruiting, the army is not seen as a credible career by many in the uk, perhaps unfairly, but impressions count. It affects the recruitment of both officers and enlisted. i have a friend who is a former intelligence corps officer, who argues that many of the problems the BA have in Afghanistan and iraq is down to an anti-intellectual bias in the army, and that is down to the fact that many young people in his opinion saw the army as class ridden, and wouldn't consider it as a career.

                              Its also true that there are a lot of concerns about the numbers of former soldiers in prison in the uk, but a lot more effort is being put into aftercare and PTSD. I know somebody who works for the conservative party who in pretty involved in this area.

                              As for the inclusiveness of the BA I know enough former coldstream guardsmen to know that up till the 1980's they were lily white, and in fact had a song they used to sing when they met regiments that admitted non-whites, that was politically non-correct; thats all changed though, largely down to Prince Charles.

                              i worked with lots of people who had previously served in the British army, and they were really good people, and some of my best friends.

                              But then again the people I knew really had served in the british army
                              Last edited by paul g; 7 April 2010, 17:47.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Jessup View Post
                                Is everyone in a FOB not behind enemy lines and they'll all get cut off at some stage, except maybe by air?
                                In 2006, the Paras were deployed behind enemy lines to stop the Taliban taking strategic targets, this resulted in somecases sieges lasting weeks.

                                http://www.eliteukforces.info/parach...-herrick-4.php

                                Sangin

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GEaU...eature=related

                                June 21 - 3 Para battle group responded to a request for assistance from Afghan officials, this time focusing on the town of Sangin. A Company, along with support elements, were airlifted by Chinook to Sangin, where they moved into a compound west of the town. This compound would become their home, and the center of a prolonged siege, as A Coy defended against repeated attacks by Taliban forces. The 90-or-so men of A Coy defended their base with .50 HMGs, GPMGs, LMGs, 81mm and 51mm mortars and Javelin anti-tank missiles, as well as their SA80 rifles. In the days and weeks to come, the British forces at Sangin were to suffer several tragic losses, including multiple KIAs.

                                Kajaki

                                Around 45 Paras (from Support Coy's Mortar platoon plus assorted troops), were flown to the Kajaki Dam to defend it against repeated Taliban attacks. The Dam's hydroelectric plant supplied large areas of Helmand with electrical power and was coveted by the insurgents. during their time at the dam, the Paras at Kajaki staved off repeated attacks by the Taliban.

                                Musa Qaleh

                                As detailed here, the Pathfinder Platoon was drawn into a protracted siege at Musa Qaleh. The Pathfinders were eventually relieved by Danish forces, who were themselves later reinforced by elements of the Royal Irish Rangers who arrived August 6th.
                                The troops at Musa Qaleh faced repeated attacks by a determined force of Taliban, dead set on ousting the British from their base.


                                http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2240429.ece


                                Musa Qala, a besieged outpost deep in Taliban territory, holds a special place in the battle records of the Pathfinder platoon of 16 Air Assault Brigade – and of the Irishmen, Danes and other soldiers who braved face-to-face fighting to relieve them.

                                When a column at last got through to Musa Qala it found a band of dirty, skinny, heavily armed and bearded defenders. Thanks to luck and skill, none had been killed; but several men had died trying to bring help.

                                Yet the British public have heard almost nothing about what happened there more than a year ago, early on in the campaign in Afghanistan. Now the men are telling the story of the hidden siege.
                                Last edited by Vanguard; 7 April 2010, 17:55.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X