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  • Gun Based Air Defence

    Yes, ackack3, just in case you haven't been informed. the L70 is an antique, it was sitting in Dutch caves for the last 40 years before we bought it second hand... Oh and everybody else does those other things too

    And while i'm at it, I'm going deleting the "My dick is bigger than yours" or in the case of some members "I don't have a dick, so therefore I am better then you" posts in this thread.

  • #2
    Antique...seeing as there haven't been huge advances in artillery since the 2nd World War, some things just don't advance much once you reach a certain level.

    Oh and everybody else does those other things too
    That was my point actually *claps* nice to see the Irish education system hasn't failed us.

    As far as I can see, the closest Ms. Earhart came to name calling was changing "Diver" to "boy", did I miss something?

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    • #3
      As up to date as we can be, considering the Irish military budget and our "neutral" status.
      Would you propose we buy a few boatloads of Patriot missles? Or perhaps set up SAM sites?

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      • #4
        In fairness, you have to admit that compared to modern ADA equipment, a Bofors 40mm is a little archaic, even with improvements in fire control radars and ammunition. My guess is that the only reason it was purchased was that an 'upgrade' is much easier to sell to politicians than a 'replacement'. Personally, if you have to confine yourself to low-altitude, short ranged equipment, something like Avenger might do nicely. Especially if the Eagles get purchased, since then you have a common chassis. At least then you have something which is mobile and moderately capable. (As opposed to towable). Frankly, the Russian stuff is pretty capable, and pretty affordable. If could only buy one Russian item of equipment, their anti-air equipment would have to be it.

        Was it me, or did I see a 2S6 turret on a wheeled vehicle once? I wonder what the Russians would sell that for...?

        NTM
        Last edited by California Tanker; 1 October 2003, 03:21.
        Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

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        • #5
          Second you on that. What was that mobile AA they had again? The ZSU 27? Leathal piece of kit (or was).

          'Twas the ZSU 23.

          Can we upgrade it with better radar?
          Meh.

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          • #6
            I think earhart mentioned that some sort of truck mounted gattling gun system was planned before the government did the old switcheroo and bought us these lovely gate guardians
            "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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            • #7
              Well remembered Come-quickly - but unfortunately due to the powers that be, we must improvise adapt and overcome and ultimately make do with the Dutch hand-me-downs. The radar controlled system makes it more of a target than anything else. Still, it is an improvement on the L60's.
              I don't believe in love - just friendship + sex

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              • #8
                I don't suppose you have a name for the previously proposed system do you?
                Would the L70s have any use as an anti-helicopter weapon or are they just too unwieldy and obvious to survive in a modern battle space.
                "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                • #9
                  The Dutch are supposed to be getting rid of more AD systems now, their upgraded versions of the Gepard.

                  This is where gun based AD is at, due to the superior mobility andsurvivability compared to softskin trailed systems.


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                  With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                  Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

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                  • #10
                    Would the L70s have any use as an anti-helicopter weapon or are they just too unwieldy and obvious to survive in a modern battle space.
                    Believe it or not, helicopters are classed as aircraft and the L70 is an Anti-aircraft gun. If you meant how good are the l70's against helicopters, imagine your are flying in your helicopter and a piece of shrapnel from a 40mm round comes flying through the windscreen, takes your pilots head clear off, and ruptures the petrol tank.

                    Unweildy? I think not.
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                    Theres no place like 127.0.0.1
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                    • #11
                      If we were looking for self-propelled AD guns, it would be practical to stick an AA turret on a Mowag chassis.

                      Like the TriAD turret from Bofors:


                      Or the LAV-AD turrets, armed with a 25mm cannon & Stinger or Mistral missiles:
                      "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                      • #12
                        The L70 is unwieldy when compared to a self-propelled unit. The L70 has to be towed & emplaced in a positon, while there it is static & at the end of the deployment it needs to be towed away.

                        A self-propelled unit drives into position & can be in action almost immediately, it can move about as the situation requires & some can track & shoot on the move.
                        "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                        • #13
                          The defense forces bought the L70's bofors exactly for what they will be used for.i.e. a DEFENSIVE weapon. The new L70's were designed exactly for this purpose. They are purely a defensive weapon. The weapons are intended for long term emplacement in one location. The main reason they were purchased was because of irelands upcoming EU presidency. The L70's will be emplaced at all the VIP conferences/meetings that will be held here in ireland. AND THAT IS WHY the DF got them, not just because they were merely going for cheap. The L70's are there to protect against civilian type aircraft. I suppose from the DF's point of view,....... " we need protection for the meetings, mmm.. get something that will do the job adequately"....... it was obvious to the DF before they purchased them that they were not self propelled, but whats the point, when they are going to be just sitting in one place. Lets face it, the DF can't really afford to buy equipment superfluos to their immediate requirements...... unfortunately...... Basically the L70's will be there just to stop any nutters hi-jacking a cessa or commercial jet and flying into the building...... the bofors are perfectly capable of protecting a location from CIVILIAN threats.......

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                          • #14
                            How is an emplaced L70 going to stop anyone hijacking a jet? Will it be emplaced in the cockpit? :D

                            It must have a whole lot of stopping power to completely disintegrate a diving airplane, energy doesn't just disappear, you know...
                            Last edited by yellowjacket; 1 October 2003, 15:35.
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                            With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                            Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

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                            • #15
                              Here's an oddity:


                              It's an OTO 76mm AA gun on a Leopard chassis.
                              "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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