Drivers Course

[DeV]

I know a sgt that was a truck driver and would went on a driving course, the syllabus was changed just before the course started and he had to spend 7 days FTT learning DSO, rules of the road and accident procedures.

[UniSol]

From my experience of having a 154 with several boxes ticked, Luchi speaks the truth when he says the drivers are the first in and last out. When you take into account the BOS, loading stores, transporting troops/equipment, unloading stores, clean, wash and fill vehicle. Add the paperwork into the mix and the driver is in barracks/camp earlier and later than most.

Oh and we dont get to sleep on the way to/from locations

[luchi]

Well Dev back to school with you because things have just been changed again.

New DSOs out so we all have to become familiar.

New driver training policy due out soon, it not out already.

Mod 2a now includes the trailer and so has been extended.

also new mod3a on way

[The Prisoner]

Ah Luchi, don't spoil all the fun. You should release it drip by drip

[SwiftandSure]

So why exactly did you do the driving course?

Because I'm not a jack twat and I recognised that my unit needs drivers in order to function. I was one of a handful who qualified to start the course, plus my own sub unit is plagued by lazy bastards (drivers and SNCOs alike) who won't see out a full parade night, and so we arrive late and leave early at each parade night, because they don't want to do more than 2 hours a week, so they include the 30 minutes drive each way to get there into the 2 hours; much to the annoyance of our unit and instructors. So by getting the licence to drive the bus, I'd be halfway to solving the problem of being able to commit to a full training session that doesn't involve driving myself and any other troops that want to train properly.

As for the drivers sitting around drinking tea.....
I am sure you know that the driver is usually there before everyone else to check out the vehicle and ensure everything is in order. Then while the troops ar egetting briefed the driver(s) and CQ are usually the ones who is humping all the stores required for the tactics, including rations etc, onto the truck.
And then at the end of the day.after sitting on their hole all day , the driver(s) have to assist the CQ putting everything back into the stores before going off to fill and wash the vehicle.
For you that would be a nissan or minibus, that takes 10 to 15mins to wash. But if its something bigger and its been off road, you are looking at over an hour of cleaning.
So if you bring 3 trucks out that means the last driver gets finished about 2 hours after you, assuming the 3 drivers help eachother.

How much of you tactics is just sitting around anyway?

Ah hear Luchi! Really? I mean, really?

If there's any lifting to be done, you can bet that that shower won't be doing it.

It was only yesterday before heading to the range that the drivers rocked up later than the troops and we were waiting around with ammo, weapons, flakkers, and other kit for the drivers to turn up with the truck, bus and Nissan. The truck was already packed by the troops on the last parade night, so they had very little to do other than turn up. When they finally pulled up, it was the troops that loaded the truck with the rest of the gear as the drivers were back-chatting the cadre who were giving out!

I've given up counting the amount of times that I've driven myself and the lads up to the barracks to be there on time because the driver has failed to get out of his pit or is well behind schedule.

They do however have a knack for throwing up an 18x24 tent with gusto, providing of course they haven't managed to pull troops off an exercise to do it for them whilst they "supervise". Then again, that's only because they'll proceed to sit in it with the Burco on constantly throughout the Ex, slagging the lads who are actually soldiering, probably whilst praising themselves on a job well done for putting the Ex together no doubt.
Then, back in barracks, you can put money on that it'll be the exercise troops opening that tent up again to clean it and fold it properly before it goes back into stores.

Every frontline squaddie and REMF thinks that their job is the backbone of the whole operation, but to suggest that just because these boys are drivers, that they are the workhorses of the unit means that you're sorely mistaken on this occasion.

[DeV]

Well Dev back to school with you because things have just been changed again.

It wasn't myself and was about 6/7 years ago.

New DSOs out so we all have to become familiar.

Saw a copy the other day but didn't have time to put the velcro gloves on

If there's any lifting to be done, you can bet that that shower won't be doing it.

It was only yesterday before heading to the range that the drivers rocked up later than the troops and we were waiting around with ammo, weapons, flakkers, and other kit for the drivers to turn up with the truck, bus and Nissan. The truck was already packed by the troops on the last parade night, so they had very little to do other than turn up. When they finally pulled up, it was the troops that loaded the truck with the rest of the gear as the drivers were back-chatting the cadre who were giving out!

I fairness SAS, my experience is that troops load vehicles under the supervision of the driver (they are responsible).

Drivers shouldn't be involved in an exercise, unless the exercise includes tactical vehicle movements etc..... why? Do you want to be driven back to barracks after a 72 hour ex by a driver who has had little or no sleep?

[SwiftandSure]

I fairness SAS, my experience is that troops load vehicles under the supervision of the driver (they are responsible).

Drivers shouldn't be involved in an exercise, unless the exercise includes tactical vehicle movements etc..... why? Do you want to be driven back to barracks after a 72 hour ex by a driver who has had little or no sleep?

The point made there DEV was that the drivers can hardly be considered as hard workers.

And on the point of sleep, in the Royal Signals I've been on many exercises where I've driven back after a few days on exercise, with little in the way of sleep. Because in a 3 man det, we wouldn't always have the luxury of a steady 8 hours sleep, nor would we down tools to enforce our 'driver's hours'.

If the drivers want to be separate to the exercise, I'm cool with that, and it makes perfect sense. Just don't start bullshitting that they're the lifeblood of the RDF and that they're the glue that holds it all together just because they have an AF154 and are expected to show a little early, and leave a little later.

[trellheim]

New DSOs out so we all have to become familiar.

New driver training policy due out soon, it not out already.

Mod 2a now includes the trailer and so has been extended.

also new mod3a on way

Do you have those for distribution ? i.e. by email. I'll get them out.

As for the training diary, Its a platoon or course diary for the rest of the DF . If you have a School SOP that says its a one man diary then thats all cool. Can't find it in TI7/2006 though.


I repeat. Redress is not a negative thing in this regard.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

And on the point of sleep, in the Royal Signals I've been on many exercises where I've driven back after a few days on exercise, with little in the way of sleep. Because in a 3 man det, we wouldn't always have the luxury of a steady 8 hours sleep, nor would we down tools to enforce our 'driver's hours'.

don't mean to take this off on a tangent but that's all changed now mate throughout the whole of the Army (our army anyhow) - every driver (and Commander) has to have his drivers hours card on his person (and for the 2 weeks prior to the current week) and it is signed off by a SNCO - if there any 'anomalies' on it then it is all rechecked and anyone found to have been working / driving when they should have been resting is in the sh|te.

likewise we have to enforce 'rest days' (and it really is enforced) during exercise / normal routine to ensure drivers remain within the correct quota's. in your days we had 'Crown Exemption' but the EU have now managed to put a stop to all that.

has the same happened at home?

[DeV]

SAS drivers are essential (as are troops) - they are potential showshopper

Not sure about the new DSOs but rest is essential as a due of care extents until the troops (including drivers) reach home.

[SwiftandSure]

fair one RGJ, I wouldn't endorse driving tired, but was making the point that those driving and those exercising don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive. The rest period can be factored into the exercise and those driving could participate in the Ex rather than just park up and toss it off.

SAS drivers are essential (as are troops) - they are potential showshopper

Which is why I did the course DEV.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

agreed S&S - drivers should 'also' drive and be included in every other activity, just like everyone else and so long as they are within the dreaded drivers hours there should be no reason not to drive a military vehicle back to base.

[luchi]

Ah hear Luchi! Really? I mean, really?

If there's any lifting to be done, you can bet that that shower won't be doing it.

Wow I want to do a detail for your unit.
The last 3 details I did were definitly not like that.
The last one was with the AD. Ok it was only a range practice but I, and the other two drivers, had to pitch in and do all the same work as any of the others. Then when everyone had finished I had to take the truck with rifle racks back to Dublin with the BS. unload and shut down.

Previous to that was the 0.5 shoot.
I had to report to the Curragh at 06.30 to RV with the security and load up the amo for the day.
When we got to the Glen ok I sat around but then when all you guys went off home I had the task of unloading all those empty boxes before closing down.

Then again, that's only because they'll proceed to sit in it with the Burco on constantly throughout the Ex, slagging the lads who are actually soldiering, probably whilst praising themselves on a job well done for putting the Ex together no doubt.

I think you are refering to HQ staff

Every frontline squaddie and REMF thinks that their job is the backbone of the whole operation,

And they are not wrong now are they.
everyone needs everyone else for the job to be done effectively.

Saw a copy the other day but didn't have time to put the velcro gloves on

Do you have those for distribution ? i.e. by email. I'll get them out.

If you should have gotten them you would have them. AFIK they were sent electronically to all units.

Can't find it in TI7/2006 though.

I would have thought it was in TI 05/2002

I repeat. Redress is not a negative thing in this regard.

Not saying it is negative but it shouldn't be necessary.

that's all changed now

Its changing here too.

but the EU have now managed to put a stop to all that.

Oh no they haven't.
The EU directive on driving hours exampts, among others
Military
Emergency workers
Voluntary workers

However these groups do have a responsibility to those working for them.

The rest period can be factored into the exercise and those driving could participate in the Ex rather than just park up and toss it off.

And that is not what happens in most units I know.

[trellheim]

If you should have gotten them you would have them. AFIK they were sent electronically to all units

Seriously ? After all this time here that's the line you're peddling ? We've established many years ago that the official communications are utterly borked. Many times the only place I've found stuff is here and I've emailed it to all and sundry. Also as I can't fix S&S's issue as I can't check with TVMS all I can give him is the only forcing official channel available to him. Perhaps you or the Prisoner might check for him.

[luchi]

Seriously I got mine by email. Looking at the recipient list 62 inf bn is there twice so someone in your bn has it.

As for SAS.
Firstly I don't know who he is or anything about him other than he is EBde, so that is not actually possible.
Secondly, if i did what would you be told asking for information on a student that I had nothing to do with.

Now since none of us know anything about what was done we are all just speculating.

Yes he can go the whole hog and make a written submission to the COS but all I am saying it should not be required. his cadre work the same hours as DTpt.
There is no reason for the cadre sgt that ran the course not to have an answer to why he hasn't got it.

If it was RDF instructors running an RDF course then the course would have been run in accordance with TI 7/2006 and we would have had some connection with it.
But since it was a PDF run course and I assume run in accordance with TI 7/2006 then it was run either under the auspices of 2LSB or TVMS and I am sure they wouldn't like any of us poking in their business.