Drivers Course

[Goldie fish]

Hi Buck,
Given the cost of basic training already, a few quid on getting a guy cleared to drive is hardly a waste of funds, especially if it increases the utility of the individual. You could easily limit a freshly trained driver to basic vehicles such as saloons, light vans, Transits,etc., with specialist courses for heavier grades of vehicles as required. It's worked in dozens of armies for years, ever since armies discoverd motor vehicles.Although, this is the Irish Army we're talking about..........you could be a pilot of a PC-9 and still not be allowed, legally, to drive an electric tug.
they have a bit to go, I'd say.
regards
GttC

I heard in Kosovo (and if I'm wrong I'll be corrected) An Irish army Driver could drive Any KFOR vehicle, As well as Irish Vehicles, But any other KFOR soldier, could only drive KFOR vehicles, and not Irish Vehicles...

[luchi]

When was driving not a military applicable skill?

did i say "applicable skill"??

I think it would be a better way, to have everyone at least familiar with the DF basic vehicles: nissan/pajero, transit!

of course it would

it would cost money though, clearly not a runner in the foreseeable future...

no it wouldn't because all they would really have to is stop this crap of "our licence is better than yours"

Hi Buck,
Given the cost of basic training already, a few quid on getting a guy cleared to drive is hardly a waste of funds,

why does every one bring it down to this?

Those of us that have done the driving course know what a protracted course it is.
Is there really 35 spare hours in the recruit training program to teach mod 1 of the driving course and 6 weeks to teach mod 2.
thats 6 weeks full time not rdf time!!!!

so forget about the cost, the question still remains, why distract from military training?

Yes Zulu people drive in the army but it is not a military skill.
if you don't believe me ask the billions of non military personnel around the world that drive professionally.
trucks are trucks
DROPS are glorified skip trucks.
And although I have never been in one, I have been told that a tank is no more difficult to drive than a Hymac.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

luchi - where are you going with your 6 weeks?

you can pass your test in just over a week (or equivalent hours) usually and get your Full Licence.

then it's just a matter of 'conversion' onto the vehicles concerned when they get to their unit.

some of our vehicles would take a week or more but your Land Rovers etc can be done in a couple of days, as can cross country driving.

there is room in the training program as some of the lessons are slipped back into the evenings.

the system works - turning out well trained recruits who can all drive.

every soldier should be able to drive legally.

[DeV]

That isn't the way the DF or civilian licence works.

Due to the PC crowd evening training is restricted

Remember not everyone even has a provisional licence when they join, diesel and FWT cost money... money the DF doesn't have

It is a vital skill even in the RDF

[luchi]

luchi - where are you going with your 6 weeks?

Every course is run on a syllabus.

1 week is given to theory.
5 weeks to basic driving skills, ie small vehicles and includes 1 day of off road.
1 week for minibus conversion.

thats the way it is.

you can pass your test in just over a week (or equivalent hours) usually and get your Full Licence.

I am sure you are right but....

then it's just a matter of 'conversion' onto the vehicles concerned when they get to their unit.

once again I agree but there are vested interests here.

every soldier should be able to drive legally.

They can

All it needs is the right officer to sign the right papers and bingo!!
But little empires and PCness prevent this.

Dev:
I don't disagree that driving is a useful skill but vital???

[Goldie fish]

In the UK, it was possible (in civilian life) to go from provisional motorcycle licence, with no experience at all, to Test in 3 intensive days.

The law changed to prevent block booking of tests some years ago, but there was a very high success rate.

[hedgehog]

the main aim of recruit traiing is to turn civvies into Soldiers

in recruit training they learn the very very basics of Soldiering- when they get to their units they

learn the rest- UNits are crying out for new Soldiers- the time set out for recruit training is already to long.

rooting tooting and shooting is the only thing that should be done as recruits- they dont have the time

to learn unncesseary skills such as driving and identification of flaura and fauna.

when a lad gets to his unit and he has a reasonable grasp of his basic skill sets- then and only then

should he be considered for the likes of driver training-

I agree that every Soldier should know how to drive-

[The Prisoner]

This driving story has been flogged to death. The simple truth is that there is "an empire" to be protected, full stop.

Here is a good example:

We have a 3x who is a qualified HGV mechanic. For his job he holds all catogaries on his driving licence. They made him do Module 1 (granted he had to do DSOs). Then they wanted him to do Module 2. Only for a PDF officer, who came up through the ranks, pleaded his case over a period of time with the highest authority possible, was he allowed to be tested in a TCV 4x4 and thereby avoid a charade. This is the only case of "real world thinking" that I can recall in a long time as regards military transport.

Rather than teaching someone in a Nissan (too big, too powerful for a learner, too expensive, working vehicles tied up) the DF should invest in some 10 year old Micras/Yaris or simillar and the class B driving course could be done in a week. Also why can the DF not use the civi theory test? If it's good enough for Joe Public why not the DF?
All they have to do then is the DSOs and with a willing and interested student it would take two days max.

[luchi]

In the UK, it was possible ..............

Any thing is possible once the will is there.

the main aim of recruit traiing is to turn civvies into Soldiers
.......

they dont have the time

to learn unncesseary skills such as driving and identification of flaura and fauna.

when a lad gets to his unit and he has a reasonable grasp of his basic skill sets- then and only then

This driving story has been flogged to death. The simple truth is that there is "an empire" to be protected, full stop.

Rather than teaching someone in a Nissan (too big, too powerful for a learner, too expensive, working vehicles tied up) the DF should invest in some 10 year old Micras/Yaris or simillar and the class B driving course could be done in a week. Also why can the DF not use the civi theory test? If it's good enough for Joe Public why not the DF?
All they have to do then is the DSOs and with a willing and interested student it would take two days max.

You answered all this in your first sentance!!

[DeV]

Dev:
I don't disagree that driving is a useful skill but vital???

Have a look at CS4 and see how many drivers are supposed to be in an infantry battalion (and not all get tech pay so aren't listed). In a mortar crew 1 is the driver yet they are all supposed to be able to do everyones job?!


The rules aren't just there to keep people on courses, they are also there to ensure drivers are safe. But I do agree there should be some changes.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

...when a lad gets to his unit and he has a reasonable grasp of his basic skill sets- then and only then should he be considered for the likes of driver training'...

so when he needs it most when he deploys on operations straight out of training he will not be able to drive?

we don't always have that luxury Hedge - look at the likes of Keef - he will be straight out of training and into Helmand, he has only been in basic training a couple of months and is on the way to gaining his Full UK Driving Licence courtesy of the Army.

driving is not just a nice thing to have or a cushty course to go on after operations - its for operations that you need it most.

sometimes being able to drive in a hostile situation may be the difference between life and death - that's why all of our soldiers now (generally) join their units already able to drive.

[hedgehog]

Are you saying that you send a lad on operations straight from training-

Here you have to be a year in the DF before you can travel

but I suppose both Armies are different

But I would have really thought that 2-3 weeks out of recruit training would have been

much better spent learning the basics

[RoyalGreenJacket]

Are you saying that you send a lad on operations straight from training

YES, of course we do - he must complete OPTAG training for the relevant AOR first but yes he will go straight out on operations.

there is not much he will learn sat in a barracks for a year at home that he won't soon learn out on patrol with other soldiers, besides we don't have the option to leave troops at home (except a Rear Party) as we send formed Battalions / Battle Groups - when his battalion goes - he goes.

driving is an excellent skill to have under his belt when he is out there.

granted, it used to be something usually left until reaching his unit (particularly in the Infantry) but other arms have been producing fully trained soldiers who can drive for the Army when they reach their units and now it's virtually Army wide.

so i say yes - train them as soldiers who can also drive, particularly in the Irish DF where you have a smaller pool of manpower, you need more people with many varied skills.

[luchi]

Have a look at CS4 and see how many drivers are supposed to be in an infantry battalion (and not all get tech pay so aren't listed). In a mortar crew 1 is the driver yet they are all supposed to be able to do everyones job?!.

OK so CS4 is a work of fiction, what more can be said.

The rules aren't just there to keep people on courses, they are also there to ensure drivers are safe.

So you agree the rules are there to keep people on courses!!
And ensure others have the job to instruct them.

But please to "ensure safety"

A simple assessment is all that is required.

But I do agree there should be some changes

There shold be many changes!!!!!

[DeV]

CS4 isn't a work of fiction it outlines who is in each unit and what their job & qualifications are, it is the reality that is the problem.