PDF view of Reservist?

[T.I.M.]

Originally posted by Erwin

An FCA NCO's Cse lasts what 2 weeks

Wrong, The eastern Bde cse lasts up to 27 (+/-) days!! I Did mine in the summer and boy it wasnt an easy ride! prior to that i have done 3 annual camps 1 recruit camp and countless weekends away with either my own unit or my parent (PDF) unit. Now i know you may have come across some shi**ead's just there to mooche, but dont tar all us Fcá with the same brush, there is a minority in the ranks who are well aware how the military operates.

[3 Star Pte FCA]

When I was at camp during the summer, the PDF were grand, some of my buds are in the PDF aand were anly too happy to help train for the medical and the mile and a half(which i passed i might add!!):flagwave: :flagwave: :flagwave: :D :D

[The Joker]

I have been in the FCA for nearly 4 years now have done over 20 camps and more weekends and I am still a 3 star. Saying that NCO's only do 14 days could not be further from the truth.

[Erwin]

Not FCA/Reserve bashing here at all but -
a) How long is an actual FCA Recruit camp?
b) How long is an actual FCA NCO's Cse?

Now what i'm getting at here is that aside from service alone how can you possibly assimilate all thats required to be a Soldier/NCO in one or two weeks training?You can't.Granted you'd pick up a lot along the way but on the actual Cse you wouldn't.You might get a grip of the military perspective but not the reality which is far different from what many would expect!

[Docman]

A Reserve recruit camp is 1 Week. However a recruit is supposed to have done approx 6 months of weekly training before going to camp. Camp is only supposed to be revision and TOET's. Unfortunately as we all know, most recruits on camp have only 1-3 months training or as regularly happens......no training at all.
This is a product of the lenght of time it take to induct recruits and poor organisation.

A Reserve Potential NCO's camp is 2 weeks with approx 6 months of weekly training beforehand. Again the weekly training does not happen in most cases and Potentials get little training before showing up for the course.

No.2 Eastern Brigade have been experimenting with a new format for the last 1-2 years which is supposed to be implemented country wide sometime in the future. I not sure of the details but I think it is 3-4 weekends and 2 week camp.

[Bailer]

Erwin, I've been a Corporal 3 years after spending 4 as a Pte. I've done a total of 20 weeks full time training, Not Including working as an Admin NCO for 5 weeks, and 2 weeks spent as support for the 5bn in which I got lectured and trained to the same standard as the PDF. And also a week spent doing "duties" with the ranger wing in 1998.

At all times our unit recieved support and training from the PDF who are the same people who train PDF. In fact whenever I was learning something new the training came from PDF. So how about the 2 other Cpl's I did my recruit camp with, well they both did 2 MONTHS in the Glen doing duties and training with the PDF. Then they did a 3rd month in Aitken Barracks. So you say We havn't earned our rank?? Maybe we don't have the opertunities or training of a PDF NCO such as overseas experience or further courses as PTI etc. But we're qualified to be Cpl's to lead a section and Instruct them in the Skills of a Pte Soldier.

[T.I.M.]

Originally posted by Docman
No.2 Eastern Brigade have been experimenting with a new format for the last 1-2 years which is supposed to be implemented country wide sometime in the future. I not sure of the details but I think it is 3-4 weekends and 2 week camp.

were you not paying attention to my earlyer post...


I DID THIS YEARS PNCO CSE!! IT WAS 27 DAYS!!! SPREAD OUT OVER 6 MONTHS!!!

it was broke into 4 diffrent modules

prelims (2 days)

MOI (9 days)

introduction to tatics/feildcraft & weapon training (2 days)

Tactics,feildcraft,section commander's orders, duty of a guard commanderm,DaD, tactical preformance, general written tests, patrol harbours etc.. (2 week)

and we were given info to study at our own unit/home

plus the selection course for the PNCO's cse.....

[Bravo20]

Chill out TIM.

The previous poster is correct when he says that the 2EBde is experimenting with the Pot NCO syllabus. And if you are not in the East how can you be expected to know exactly the form those experiments take (except through rumours). The Pot NCO course in the East is now broken into modules and can be done over a two year period (to allow those who cannot afford to take more than 2 weeks holidays). This has been a vast improvement on past courses. That being said the syllabus has not yet been officially changed.

The recruit syllabus does not specify whether or not it should be done over a full time period or on training nights. It breaks the syllabus down into hours (again this is very much outdated). It is possible to do the syllabus in 1 week but that usually involves cutting corners and craming too much in. Ideally (especially if you are to do the recruit steyr range properlly) you should do it over 2 weeks. It can also be done over training nights and field days in about 6 months.

Training needs to be improved, syllabi need to be updated. Consideration needs to be put into a greater use of modularisation, continuous assessment and the use of weekends over a longer period of time. Unless of course like the US you can introduce legislation that allows RDF to take part in the same courses (i.e. employment legislation so people can take the time). The bottom line is that the current syllabi are so outdated that it leads to a massive training between the RDF and their PDF counterparts. Until that changes it is going to be very hard to persuade PDF to treat us as equal.

[FMolloy]

Relax the head, TIM, you'll live longer.

Docman was pretty close to the mark.

[Erwin]

Never said you didn't earn your rashers Bailer,did i? Anyway chaps don't get hung up on this one,cos i know this thread or one in a similar vein will rear its ugly head again!!

[jpb]

lad's,

regardless of time spent training you all have to agree that there are two type's of soldier in the rdf, motivated and those that have taken the age old name of "sandbag's".

through my career in the army i have had the experience of working with both type's and the motivated one's are good at what they do but the "sandbags" are the one's that are the most obvious, motivated one's are training when they are supposed to, sandbag's are hanging around the canteen, out evry night on the piss, shag off at evry opportunity and make up a lot of the sick parade (i know what i am talking about ) and still receive the same pay and are not seem again untill a month before the next camp, the RDF is changing but the detrious is still being carried along, you yourselve's probably see it at evry camp and training night, these are only some reason's why army will look with a sometime's jaundiced veiw at the RDF as a whole, not at individual's.

as was said before respect where it is due, i only ever had a prob with RDF per's of the "sandbag" variety, but it can overshadow the good qualitie's of the motivated per if the said sandbag is the one the army lad keeps meeting.

p/s there are wanker's in the pdf as well, check out the shit employment's...lol

[fillo]

jpd well said, i could'nt agree more & for this view to change alot of rdf members will have to change also

[JAG]

On training

To become a two star, I did hmm...1 recruit camp & one annual camp. I learned how to march, how to strip an FN & clean it, shot on the .22 and the ARPs. A few weekends away, which I have never counted as training. Total time training, including shooting days and (very generously) TOETs? About twenty days. Say three weeks. Oh hell, say four five day weeks.

PDF spend what, fourteen weeks. to get to 2*? Equal training- no. Was I up to the same standard- NO.

To be a three star I did Four annual camps, and a couple of exam days etc. Call it seven maybe five day weeks. Zero tactics, or any other training (unless you count hiking with a rifle as tactical training)

Up to PDF standards- I think not.

Gettin my stripes- two weeks plus prelim. Be very generous and say that Our days on the POTS were like two on the PDF one. Maybe equivalent to eight weeks.

Was I competent to lead a section, a subsection, or even a ****ing set square and ruler into combat? **** no.

RDF will never measure up to PDF unless and until the resources and commitment is put into them- and that means from the top, all the way down to each individual soldier.

And when that happens, I will be first in line at the recruiting office.

Was I up

[T.I.M.]

well its sad to hear that your training was shite.... but dont you dare accuse me or anyone else for that fact of having the same level of training as you!

[Frank Aiken]

JAG your training sounds poor, it more like your units fault if you done not tactices before you were given 3*.
The PDF recruit covers different stuff than a RDF recruit, so It is not practical to compare both.
If people stick to doing the training layed down for them and doing it well, thats all that can be asked.