PDF view of Reservist?

[California Tanker]

And I replied that it's kindof a non-comparison. An RDF infantry corporal is tasked with the same job as a PDF one. USCG Aux are highly inexperienced at armored combat, but much better trained than I am to go poncing about in boats in inclement weather.

NTM

[strummer]

Isn't JROTC just a high-school thing anyway CT? I know some recruits get some credit for it, (enlisting as E-2 or E-3 etc) but I didn't think it counted for much anyway. There is no contract or obligation afterwards. In fact the only High-Schools that offer it in my neck of the woods are the schools for "problem children". I suppose they reckon it introduces some sort of discipline.

I think Ex-Soldier's point was that JROTC, CAP, USCG Aux, etc are just "quasi" military organisations. He was comparing one of their members giving orders to a Regular or Reserve Component member with that of a FCA NCO trying to order around PDF soldiers.

Later.

[California Tanker]

The problem with JROTC is that (a) They have not been qualified to lead troops (Ditto ROTC), and (b) they tend to be rather young, immature, and not wise in the ways of the world. It's kindof an apples/oranges question.

CAP, I'm not sure about. Frankly, I'm not even sure if it has a recogniseable rank structure. I certainly have no quarrel with treating Coast Guard, Navy, Air Force or Marine types with respect, and have never received anything less than the utmost respect from them. Again, the concept of taking instructions from them may be situation-dependant. I don't expect Coasties to know much about armoured combat, but similarly, I'll follow their every command aboard ship in the confident expectation that they know what they're on about.

Even within the Army officer's corps, you get three categories of person: ROTC, OCS and West Pointers. By tradition, ROTCs are considered as the weakest of the bunch, then West Pointers, and then OCS. However, it's more a matter of area of expertese.

OCS graduates, being former enlisted, are generally best in being practical subject matter experts, and enlisted/officer relations, since they've been on the other side of the fence, and doing it for a couple of years. That said, some former NCOs never quite get used to not being NCOs any more and tend to get in the way too much. Federal OCS grads are known as 'ninety-day-wonders', they churned me out in a fairly intense 65. Compared to the four years of Academy/ROTC graduates, is that really enough 'officer-learning' time?

WestPointers are considered by and large to be pompous academy gits who think they know better than us because they went through four years of unpleasantness. Again, a false point of view. I do have it on authority that for the first year or two, many do not have suitable respect for the NCO corps (Due to their being taught by officers predominantly), but they tend to learn the hard way. You can rest assured that these guys are outstanding unit administrators, great at discipline and other things that help units run smoothly, and have a decent background in tactics, usually in military history. They are also invariably well-disciplined themselves, you can usually rely on them to do what they say they will do.

The ROTC crowd are considered 'weakest' of the lot because they seem to have it the easiest. No Boot Camp, no Hell Week, (with the exception of those from military colleges like the Citadel). They tend to relate poorly with the enlisted personnel simply because they have never been in their shoes. However, by the time they've graduated four years of ROTC, you can be sure that they've got their troop-leading-procedures down to a 't' and have honed basic field tactics. Usually they've also taken the opportunity to go to some speciality schools like Airborne or Air Assault.

Each has their strengths and weaknesses, though each 'category' of leadership has gone through a different level of training, all are considered good enough to be given the gold bar and a platoon to lead. (Or the questionable ones, a staff job while they get themselves sorted out!). I believe most troops realise this. If you, enlisted Joe Snuffy, have a choice between a RingKnocker, a Ninety-Day-Wonder, or a ROTC-Nazi, who would you prefer to lead you? All have been qualified for the position, we don't worry too much about it.

NTM

[Edit: I forgot about Direct Commission. Usually experienced NCOs in their thirties, with many years service behind them. Considered mature and experienced enough that they don't need to go to OCS. Not -too- many of them around though.)

[hptmurphy]

Under the A7 document .....awarding of certain types of employment as a punishment for any infringement is not permitted.

If a person is alledged to have comitted a crime he or she must be charged and dealt with through the correct sequence of event s.....the days of sumary justice is gone!

[clean it again]

Ex-soldier. They were punished for walking in front of a parade that was going on, and repecting the parade by walking around it. and yes kitchen duties were handed out that day. because a other unit had
recruits in the kitchen, and they passed back the info to a memeber of the course who was from that unit. the privates were bitching about it all day.

[The Joker]

In order for the PDF to respect us and treat us like well trained soldiers we have to take pride in what we stand for. We have to make our troops proud to be a member of the reserve and not a sand bagger or in it just for the free cloths. Or as I once heard a force of cronic alcoholics. Once we belive in our selfs other will follow.

[waterbaby]

I was always taught and told when you joined the DF that you were to respect Rank no matter if you were PDF or RDF(FCA).
On the whole I have not come across the problem of disrespect between the PDF/RDF, but I know in some cases it is a problem.
:(

Some very interesting points made here. Intergrated training was only beginning towards the end of my time in the PDF and as i have said on many occasions (for those bothered to read all of what i post and not just a few lines) you get good and bad in every unit. It is a simple matter of military life. Generally i found most of the RDF people i dealt with to be there for the right reasons which is very commendable. However i must admit to also coming across a higher percentage of walter mitty types than i did in the PDF.
As has been said already, respect is gained. It dosent become automatic because of a set of poxy stripes.
As for the guy/girl who said they laughed off the shit the regs gave them, I have no real sympathy for you. If you are of equal rank and you dont stand up for yourself then what sort of treatment can you expect. Come on guys for christ sake, stand your ground. If it gets a bit heated then so what. We are soldiers, we are trained to be aggressive!!!

[Ex-soldier]

The exception to the above would be if the FCA NCO is performing the duties of BOS or guard commander.

[Ex-soldier]

I must say that some of the postings on this thread are urban legend. Kitchen duty is not handed out as a punishment in the PDF. Kitchen duty may be given to certain people who are useless, but it is generally shared on a monthly or quarterly basis by the different units within the barracks. If an NCO or a Pte. does something wrong they either get a major verbal admonishment or they are charged with an offense. They may even get some work detail within the unit for the remainder of the day but they do not get punished for ignoring an FCA NCO. A PDF NCO may repeat the instruction to them which they will obey but they will not get punished for ignoring an FCA NCO!!!

[Bravo20]

After reading Ex-Soldiers posts, I have to agree with him. Respect is something earned and does not necessarily come with the rank.

[hptmurphy]

Hey Groundhog baby! thatts a very open ended comment seeing as where you got your grounding in the fine art of soldiering!:D :D :D :D :D

[clean it again]

I had some problems with some PDF staff, but in general all PDF nco's
have to greatest repect for RDF. I was on a course recently, and the PDF nco, with 20 years experience. Had a lot of repect for us. He helped us out on training/material. We went out a pint with him, and he was talking about how young PDF privates/ncos don't like RDF, because they can see that the writing is on the wall for the PDF. The next day a female
NCO had us lined up for roll call/kit inpection, and a PDF cpl and 2 privates walk in font of her as she is doing the roll call. The PDF sgt took strips off them. One of them said there only FCA. Hell hat no fury then a pissed off NCO. WW3 started. He got them kitchen duties, oh so good to look at. The cpl was charged with been inproperly dressed. Later I found out that the cpl was on a course, that wait for it the sgt was teaching. The cpl left the course for medical reasons. the Sgt had great repect for us because we did this work for FREE, when there was so many things to do in civvy life.

If a PDF private/nco gives you shit, if he is the same rank as you, take no shit.

[T.I.M.]

Originally posted by Groundhog

In the Infantry we KNOW we are better than everybody else.:D

I hear that!! :D

[Groundhog]

Cavalry think they are better than infantry and infantry think they are better than artillery

In the Infantry we KNOW we are better than everybody else.:D

Look on the bright side all you RDF people. If Charlie McCreevy gets his way there will be no PDF in a few years.