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Innovation and improvised war materials

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  • Innovation and improvised war materials

    Would it be possible for Ireland to home produce any significant amount of non-obsolescent warlike stores without much external aid ala the Ford MKVI etc during the emergency or has the manufacture of military machines beome too advanced for Ireland's limited manufacturing base?
    34
    Yes, anything we set our minds to
    38.24%
    13
    AFVs, and computer based battle technology
    17.65%
    6
    Home made APCs and Armour
    26.47%
    9
    The bare minmum to sustain the AMLs
    5.88%
    2
    Not even your DPM jockeys
    11.76%
    4
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  • #2
    The lack of any sort of R&D will be the main problem. You can't just go out in the morning and think " Begob, I'm going to build meself an MBT!"

    The construction would not be as big an issue, existing industries could adapt to military production, providing raw materials can be sourced.

    Designs would probably have to be obtained from abroad unless time was not an issue, even reverse-engineering existing systems would take lots of time and effort. The only exceptions to this would be where indigenous companies like Timoney already exist. (Actually, I cant think of any other defence-related company in Ireland, although there are several "dual-use" producers.)
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    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

    Comment


    • #3
      Just for therecord I do not and never have owned and or worn DPM boxer shorts/briefs/thongs or any other form of militarised undergarment, that said you can't beat a GTX trailsock.

      Getting back to the issue at hand I think that the manufacture of APC's would be manageable as long as there was a sufficient supply of the correct aut components, the biggest limitation is our iinability to make any sort of gun or missile that you don't see knocked up in the metalwork room of a Tech, I mean community college #Cough#
      "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

      Comment


      • #4
        The limitations are few.
        In the past we have successfully constructed..
        Armoured Vehicles.
        Soft Skinned Vehicles.
        Naval Vessels.

        On the Island of ireland we have also Officially Built
        Military Aircraft,
        Missiles,

        And Unofficially
        Firearms,
        Improvised Explosive Devices
        Lets leave the last 2 for now.

        Currently In The Republic and NI the following military equipment is designed or built.
        Missile Guidance Systems,
        Targeting electronics,
        Rigid Inflatable boats,
        EOD robots,
        Weapon design Hardware
        Armoured vehicle design,
        Load carrying equipment,
        Explosives,
        Fast Patrol Boats,

        and much more..
        Fact is that while some of the industries are no longer in production,the skills are still in the workforce,and if required could easily be redeveloped. For example the Shipyard workers at Verolme and Harland and Wolf while no longer engaged in shipbuilding,now work in related engineering industries,still making use of the skills learnt as shipbuilders.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Currently In The Republic and NI the following military equipment is designed or built.
          Missile Guidance Systems,
          Targeting electronics,
          Rigid Inflatable boats,
          EOD robots,
          Weapon design Hardware
          Armoured vehicle design,
          Load carrying equipment,
          Explosives,
          Fast Patrol Boats,


          John Gormley and the Directors of PANA and AfrI are probably going into cardiac arrest about now. Or they will if they ever read this list. :D
          sigpic
          Say NO to violence against Women

          Originally posted by hedgehog
          My favourite moment was when the
          Originally posted by hedgehog
          red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't think we can realistically include the north since our protectors in HMs armed forces are the only people up there who haven't sworn to destroy us in one way or another, and given that our "Heavy" industrial base (i.e. Cork) collapsed with nationalisation I think ships aircraft and armaments might be a little unrealistic, unless you want to make Gustavs, which the UVF once made on a lathe.
            "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

            Comment


            • #7
              You also have to take into consideration a reduction of imports in a major war scenario, this would severly curtail the raw materials available, and to be honest we would be limited to small caliber ammo, perhaps firearms and APC's, but nothing computer guided or operated (as most of the components come from asia) and even the few things we could make would become more and more limited as time drags on due to lack of fuels and rubber and other completed products and raw materials.

              Comment


              • #8
                I worked on a military spec verson of this forklift. It was kitted out with a different cab, rifle rack, infer red lights, NBC box (suit, mask etc) Special exaust system. We even got NATO green paint that has special make up so it can washed down in case of NBC fallout.
                The was a different model sold to the irish defence forces a few years ago, but it's only difference was that it was painted green, i think that they only got 3.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  An Irish company offering a tactical battlefield management system based around SINCGARS.

                  http://www.geosolutions.ie/

                  http://www.geosolutions.ie/products/3frmstbms.htm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    'our protectors in HMs armed forces '

                    WTF ???

                    Let's see

                    1916

                    War of Independece

                    Croke Park Massacre

                    Dublin-Monaghan bombings

                    Bloody Sunday

                    Karen Reily

                    The Scots Guard killings

                    etc

                    etc

                    If thats protection . . . . .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sub-machine guns are relatively easy to make in even the most basic workshop and relatively non-sophisticated AFV are easy to manufacture. However, when the Piranha was selected, Timoney believed that they would be assembled by them, but the deal broke down. It wasn't anything to do with the quantity selected, Denemark which bought 22 built their own Timoney's but we got our from Switzerland direct; shows the govt's attitude towards developing a defence industry. There was a big munitions plant in Arklow up till the time of the First World War called kinocks, but it went shortly after independence.

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                      • #12
                        Dublin also used to have a thriving gunmaking industry, and IMI made ammunition here.
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                        With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                        Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I sincerly belive that we could design and manufacture cutting edge war materials (some posts already include some excellent examples).

                          There is a high level of education in this country, far and away superior to say countries like Spain which can produce hi tec solutions in spite of being a simple people.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm afraid that intelligence and materials are not all that there is to it (and I don't think I'd call the Spanish simple,.. noisey but not simple).
                            It all boils down to culture!
                            If there is a culture of innovation and scientific method along with aggressive determination spirnkled with organisation and individuality, then you can go very far.
                            Culture can achieve a lot, compare Italy in WWII with Imperial and Republican Rome.
                            Ireland could achieve a lot, but it would all depend on the culture fostered and promoted. Currently we are quite pessemistic and apathetic towards politics and our military, compare this with the struggle for independence, there was much innovation and improvisation there.
                            The Aztecs had immence resources and wealth that far outstripped Spains, but the Spanish smashed them in a few years.
                            The Spanish had superior technology, but very small numbers.
                            The Aztecs had immence numbers, home turf to defend and excessive resources, they even captured firearms and cannon, but failed to capitalise on it.
                            It all boiled down to culture, one was better at war and progress.
                            This was not an inherant trait to either side, they were not born biologicaly superior or inferior.
                            Can you picture Europeans failing to capatilise on captured superior enemy equipment, can you picture them not replicating and improving them?
                            Did not think so, so I conclude that yes, I suppose that if we put our minds to it, I suppose we could achieve much.
                            But it all depends on us utting our minds to it and changing the mentality in this country.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lord Flash I beg to differ regarding the Spanish.

                              They inherited their current arms industry thanks to Franco. It took a dictator in order for the light bulbs to appear.

                              I don’t think the Spanish were very smart, they lost their empire. They had more gold than our dearest neighbour the English and still made a mess of it all.

                              All they understand is how to plunder resources as we all know, Re: fishing, they took all their own fish, then the Canadian’s now they are looking at the Irish box,

                              Re: land south America-> between them and Portugal they managed to destroy a continent.

                              Someone forgot to explain the concept of trade to them.

                              I trust that you will come to you sense's and realise that you are mistaken. Far and away Irish people have shown such innovation second to none and any decision to engage in the design and manufacture regarding arms would undoubtedly establish a niche market for Irish products .

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