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The 2010 and 2011 Assessments

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    Attached Files
    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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      Attached Files
      "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

      Comment


      • so what did you see there to criticise?
        I think i already stated that in my first post and th subsequent posts.And it was CONSTRUCTIVE crticism.Not negative.

        The troops were told to leave packs. That was an order. Since I didn't see the actual opord I can't say if it was there but regardless if that is what they were told to do then that is what they had to do. You can't say it was a bad drill on the part of the lads on the ground.
        No actually i blamed the NCO's and Officers for giving such an order that compromises SOPs and indeed troops health and safety.If the lads were ordered to leave them behind than indeed that is not their fault.Its bad drills on the NCOs/Offrs part.Especially as they should know better.

        My point was however that for you guys, with your training and experience you are so far past this stage in more ways than one.
        that is why I say it is your bread and butter. With the exception of those that got the extra training doing intergration IMHO the best of the troops have little more experience than a PDF recruit.
        So your saying that the setting up of the RDFTA/RDF BTCs and lads doing integration and the new format Pots/YO's course etc is a waste of time as the standards they have been given or taught by the PDF arent being passed down or adhered to??


        Point taken.
        So if the PDF are not there to assist they should not have been there in the first place.
        The cadre staff as you well know are more admin staff then training with a few notable exceptions.This has been the case since i was in the FCA.They are unfortunately a neccessary evil to ensure the day to day running of units.Are they cost effective or can they train ye effectively.IMHO no.But that has been discussed elsewhere.The recommendation to have new blood in the cadre every threor so years to ensure up to date skills are passed on doesnt seem to be happening.

        Yes but i bet the critisim was pitched at you level. so you improved in steps.
        Yes it was.You just proved my point for me.


        now how can you say that after saying this

        if the cadre give no help or as this suggests poor quality hepl where does that leave us?
        In dire straits.Cadre should be rotated/changed.But that another thread in itself.As said already.THEY were not being assesed.YE were.


        Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagaz...7625007342531/

        Whats wrong with this picture?

        RDF Assessement Training Ex in Glen of Imal including avisit to troops by Maj Gen Ralph James DCOS ops


        This gets on my tits...cammied up to the bollocks and snow white hands. very evident across the board.



        Thankfully some elses is as pedantic as I am...
        So murph wasnt highlighting anyone in particular.He just used those photos as examples

        Originally posted by In my opinion View Post
        Totally unfair to highlight a person who is ranked and named on their uniform. That person was fully involved in the weekend unlike some of those throwing out critism here.

        Last March a member of the 58 bn was bad mouthed here by fools who decided that he was not turned out up to scratch in New York and that thread had to be locked.

        Stop attacking the person especially when he is named and pictured.

        Well done all who took part and I hope to see you all again next year
        I dont think anybodies criticism,Constructive or otherwise is solely directed at that one person.He is not being named and shamed for example.Having said that perhaps his name and rank could have been blacked out first before using the pic as an example?
        It is nothing personal at all.

        Now.I was one of those who criticised the turnout of that individual with the santa claus beard who marched in NY.MY opinion stll stands.He should have been clean shaven in accordance with Admin Instruction A9 which applies to both PDF and RDF unless medically excused.I also blamed his chain of command for allowing it.When in uniform in public you represent the DF and the country if overseas .Standards are there for a reason.We cant pick and choose which ones we follow.So are you still calling me a fool??
        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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          Attached Files
          "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

          Comment


          • no night vision
            Try eating carrots,

            Seriously how did we manage in the past when we had absolutely no NVG..good light discipline.


            security fallowing recce patrols with lights on
            Safety first.


            55 rounds per soldier at start
            Teach you to conserve ammo. Just give it all to the guys who like to blast away and save yourself having to scarpe the barrel and Gasplug of carbon after the ex...lesson learned the hard way.
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

            Comment


            • last few





              Attached Files
              "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

              Comment


              • I love the yellow smoke ones..very effective....pity the forces using can't see **** all.

                Is the guy in the second last shot 'enemy dead'...Alwsy wondered why they don't use dissimal uniforms ...absolute bastrad when the enemy turns out to be your own and you didn't recognise him as he was cammied up.

                To back track

                So are you still calling me a fool??
                as per posted by apod

                Get over yourself lol..its me they're having a go at, don't flatter yourself. Your opinions count.I'm just an ex navy ex bagger who is always wrong and everyone loves to have a pop at..and I have ginger kids!
                Last edited by hptmurphy; 14 October 2010, 11:54.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                Comment


                • Any truth to the rumors that assessors were getting involved in correcting individuals mid attack? Are they they there to instruct or assess or both?

                  Comment


                  • Safety first.
                    No.DS staff or security should never compromise exercise troops positions by standing up when they can hunker down next to say a section manouevering up a flank on a SIA or by having white light on when everybody else is using light discipline.Especially if those troops are being assessed.
                    If there is a real safety alert IE a no duff scenario then white light goes on and the staff/Security take over.Thats the only time it should happen.
                    All of this is enshrined in most units SOPS especially the BTCs.
                    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Muzzle View Post
                      Any truth to the rumors that assessors were getting involved in correcting individuals mid attack? Are they they there to instruct or assess or both?
                      Plenty of truth in that.
                      "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                      Comment


                      • I love the yellow smoke ones..very effective....pity the forces using can't see **** all.
                        We tend to try to keep yellow smoke these days for CBRN drills.Blue is used for Heli drills.

                        Is the guy in the second last shot 'enemy dead'...Alwsy wondered why they don't use dissimal uniforms ...absolute bastrad when the enemy turns out to be your own and you didn't recognise him as he was cammied up.
                        Yeah OPFOR should dress differently where possible.

                        To back track


                        as per posted by apod

                        Get over yourself lol..its me they're having a go at, don't flatter yourself. Your opinions count.I'm just an ex navy ex bagger who is always wrong and everyone loves to have a pop at..and I have ginger kids!
                        I wasnt flattering myself .Going by that post anybody who criticised that blokes poor turnout is a fool.I take exception to that.The pointing out of poor standards here is never meant as a personal attack on anybody but is an attempt to stop those mistakes from reoccuring.Pity some here cant accept that
                        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                        Comment


                        • The pointing out of poor standards here is never meant as a personal attack on anybody but is an attempt to stop those mistakes from reoccuring.Pity some here cant accept that
                          Its come to the point where an opinion is offered whether as constructive criticism or as an observation there are those who take offence, the band wagon is then firmly pounced on and those making the observattion are then the ones who become subject to scruitiny.

                          Its no longer acceptable on IMO to highlight what is blatantly wrong without incurring wrath.


                          Plenty of truth in that.
                          Again this is where support is needed that if a unit are being interefed with by 'Assesors' it should be pointed out to them that this is not their role.Would be handy if the unit being assessed had an officer of substantive rank present with a copy of the assessors brief to keep them away from the exercising troops, but this has alawys been a problem getting your own to intervene when things start to go wrong.

                          Obviously the Assessors brief wasn't specific enough or was just ignore. Again unit commanders hould attend this briefing to ascertain what the exact roles of the people on the side lines is.


                          Regarding the Lights on in the shadow vehicle,the safety was from a drivers point of view, the question should be asked was their a requirement to have a security element shadow an exercise, Surely a moble cordon of the exercise area would have done the same job had the requirement been assessed properly.
                          The assessors should only interefere where ther is a blatant safety issue. Other wise back off.
                          Last edited by hptmurphy; 14 October 2010, 12:28.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by apod View Post
                            No.DS staff or security should never compromise exercise troops positions
                            I won't lie, as No.1 Scout for my Pln, whilst advancing to our second PIA, I clocked a DS and a Security fella up ahead probably chatting to the En; I radioed back to the boss that they were there and that I considered them to be a combat indicator. So we brought up the FSG for the next tactical bound, and what would you know..... CONTACT!!

                            Comment


                            • Its no longer acceptable on IMO to highlight what is blatantly wrong without incurring wrath
                              I think robust debate is in order.
                              The Assessments are just that; see what the lie of the land is.

                              It is NOT training, if it's wrong its wrong the time to fix that is on the earlier exercises or on the end of the recruit Mod 2 or 3* Tac training

                              Expecting the Internet not to bitch and moan and not be hyper-pedantic, and getting worried about it, is like farting into a hurricane. Take the good and ignore the bad.
                              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                              Comment


                              • Its seems the issue is not the criticisms, it was using a photo of an individual who's name and rank are very clear when there were plenty of other photos

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