Originally posted by hedgehog
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Originally posted by Hello Alaska View PostSo he's a good skin then?
he should be given a chance, in effect he is going fresh into a job that he has never done
before, my ugh was because I had "interactions" with him years ago when I was young and
stupid- now I am old and stupid- I still think of him and go ugh.Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
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Well he's ex 2Bn (among other units) but that doesn't seem to impress HH. Maybe HH didn't get a chance to teach him the facts of life as a junior officer before he moved on
I got on really well with him and he is a "believer" (Army comes first, a bit by the book) which can rub some up the wrong way. Having said that I saw him being very harsh with others that I respected and couldn't understand why he had a problem with them and not others.
Not an easy job either way. Best of luck to him. There's been far worse apes by a long distance make full colonel.Last edited by Jessup; 26 August 2010, 21:44.
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Very true but if I was in front of him I'm not sure how much favour he'd show towards an unblemished prior record or extenuating circumstances; would it be "by the book" all the way.
If only everything in the DF was done "by the book". Come to think of would it be a good or bad thing if everything was done "by the book"
Anyway, best of luck to him. The DF is in for a tough few years and he's one of the good guys in my opinion.
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Originally posted by REX View PostNo. I meant the Army line, which usually is "march the guilty b*stard in!"
He didn't seem to let his being an Army judge colour his decisions.
the previous Judge did some of the following-
- Gave one lad 7 days in the hardest prison in Ireland, and 1,000 euros of a fine for putting a Cpls rank markings on and shouting at recruits.
-Sent a lad to 3 months in the hardest prison in Ireland and dismisssed him from the DF for texting his girlfreind and telling her he wasnt on duty,
- fined a soldier 300 euro for being 90 minuets absent - conincidentaly it was the day of the heavy snow and she had been caught in a snow drift.
-dismissed a guy with 30 years service and subsequent loss of pension (estiminated at €190,000 for calling a Lt Col - a Prick- he also said he was mindful to detain him in the hardest prison in Ireland for 12 months- for calling his boss a prick.
He has a hard act to follow. Anyone I know who saw the last Judge in action was very complimentary about his impartiality, he stuck to the law rather than following the Army line
He was a Judge and didnt have to follow the Army line- but as a Judge he had to follow the Constitution, where a major duty of a Judge is to be proportionate in his sentencing
I dont beleive he even knew the meaning of the word proportionate.
As I said - the new lad should be given a chance,Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
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he had to follow the Constitution, where a major duty of a Judge is to be proportionate in his sentencing
PS Why don't we all argue this at the FORUM BEERS on 02 OCTOBER ?"Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "
"No, they're trying to fly the tank"
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Originally posted by hedgehog View Postbut as a Judge he had to follow the Constitution, where a major duty of a Judge is to be proportionate in his sentencing,
civvi law or army law?
what is the maximum sentance for "breach of operational security" a la sending a message to a civvi letting them know the location (or not) of members of the DF.
Or the max sentance for derilitcion of duty a la failing to be at your post?
In civvi law the judge sentances with due regard to set precedent. if this is the same for military law then one could argue that there is precident set to execute soldiers for insubordination. So, if that was the maximum sentance then being dismissed is quite good really.Without supplies no army is brave.
—Frederick the Great,
Instructions to his Generals, 1747
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proportionate to what?
Proportionate to the crime- just as if you were caught without a current tax disc on display
it wouldnt be right to ship you to Tasmania.
what is the maximum sentance for "breach of operational security" a la sending a message to a civvi letting them know the location (or not) of members of the DF
In civvi law the judge sentances with due regard to set precedent. if this is the same for military law then one could argue that there is precident set to execute soldiers for insubordination. So, if that was the maximum sentance then being dismissed is quite good really.
I know your quiet up on transport matters and dimensions of trucks etc- but we as a nation had a referendum that got rid of the death penalty -
so that last bit is a moot point.
But thanksThings fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Comment
-
dismissed a guy with 30 years service and subsequent loss of pension (estiminated at €190,000 for calling a Lt Col - a Prick- he also said he was mindful to detain him in the hardest prison in Ireland for 12 months- for calling his boss a prick.
Still under appeal.
fined a soldier 300 euro for being 90 minuets absent - conincidentaly it was the day of the heavy snow and she had been caught in a snow drift.
Sent a lad to 3 months in the hardest prison in Ireland and dismisssed him from the DF for texting his girlfreind and telling her he wasnt on duty,
This has always been a big no go in the NS....he just had the misfortune of being caught. Punishment fitted the crime.
Gave one lad 7 days in the hardest prison in Ireland, and 1,000 euros of a fine for putting a Cpls rank markings on and shouting at recruits
Impersonationing and NCO...should have been 21 days in the digger. I don't agree with the fine.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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None of the punishments fitted the crime Murph,
and the sad thing is that most of them will be overturned / reduced/ varied on appeal
appeals that will cost all of us money- simply because a Judge didnt know how to Judge-Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
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Originally posted by hedgehog View PostProportionate to the crime- just as if you were caught without a current tax disc on display
it wouldnt be right to ship you to Tasmania.
In the Uk people are set to prison for road traffic offences like that.
People are sent to prison in Ireland for not paying their TV licence.
How is that porportionate?
From my own perspective as a manager, abeit without a law degree, the A wear case would suggest to me that the EAT would agree that if i followed the prcedures, if somebody insulted a manager by using a word like prick, or bitch to their face, if I sacked them, I'd win in a tribunal, or even if i'd lost and the tribunal substituted their opinion that abusing a manager is acceptable, which i doubt, the settlement would be absolute peanuts.
If A Wear think its inappropriate for a subordinate to post a comment on Bebo that manager a bitch, why should the Df, which is after all a disclipined military force, find it acceptable for a senior officer to call another a prick.Last edited by paul g; 27 August 2010, 14:27.
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