Rates of Pay

[The Prisoner]

Just saw on the RTE news website, that PDFORRA are claiming that some PDF members are in receipt of Family Income Supplement (FIS).

Is this widespread? I accept there are individual cases where hardship arises due to circumstances, events, etc. But is it becoming an issue in the PDF? I remember the late 1980s and the spouses' protest. NASA = National Army Spouses Association if I remember correctly.

It's hard to believe that public sector workers would find themselves in this position particulary as the PDF are not on reduced hours or such like.

Can anyone give figures regarding paycuts, income levy, pension levy, etc introduced over the last few years.


Please do not identify anyone or anything like that.

[Goldie fish]

Just saw on the RTE news website, that PDFORRA are claiming that some PDF members are in receipt of Family Income Supplement (FIS).

Is this widespread? I accept there are individual cases where hardship arises due to circumstances, events, etc. But is it becoming an issue in the PDF? I remember the late 1980s and the spouses' protest. NASA = National Army Spouses Association if I remember correctly.

It's hard to believe that public sector workers would find themselves in this position particulary as the PDF are not on reduced hours or such like.

Can anyone give figures regarding paycuts, income levy, pension levy, etc introduced over the last few years.


Please do not identify anyone or anything like that.

Why is it so hard to believe? The pension levy takes 0% for the first 15000, 5% of the next 5000 and 10% of everything after that. They pay cuts faced by all public sector workers were well reported. The defence forces get hit particularly hard as the occasional extra allowences they get merely serve to increase their tax burden.

I don't know much about the DF pay rates, but as a civil servant whose pay is comparable to a private in the PDF, my pay has dropped 7% after tax since 2008, directly as a result of successive public sector pay cuts. Shur aren't we all responsible for the state of the country, what with our golden pension etc. Worth pointing out that I contribute to my pension, and the pension levy takes more than my weekly contribution..
I don't have a family to support myself and I'm struggling to pay the bills. That isn't the poor mouth. From what I have seen(and others may agree) soldiers by nature marry in their early 20s, perhaps younger than many other professionals.
If I did have a family to support I would be safely within the criteria for F.I.S.

[apod]

Personnel on the lower end of the payscales are indeed finding it hard to make ends meet.I know guys in my own unit on FIS.On top of the paycuts and the pension levy there has been a rationalisation of the the numbers entitled to draw duty money and a tightening of the payment of subsistence allowance in some areas.Those at Pte level who have reached the top point of their payscale are still relatively poorly paid when compared to the likes of the Gardai for example.Take into account that their is no such thing as overtime in the DF and overseas is almost non existant.So very little scope to make an extra few quid to pay the same bills they had before all this cam down.Now add in kids in college or like myself kids in creche and it all adds up.
The DF are the lowest paid of ALL public sector workers.Our Department is held up as a model of a public service success story in terms of downsizing and doing more with less and yet we are tarred with the same brush as the likes of the HSE.Dont forget when all other public services go out on strike or "Blue flu" the DF is ALLWAYS there when looked for.Even if weas individuals may agree in principal with what other members of the public service are striking for we will still be classed as "Scabs" as we will empty the bins,fight the fires and drive the ambulances etc etc.

[Goldie fish]

It is also pertinent to point out that your pension is defined benefit.

Fraid not sir. I started too late.

[DeV]

The rates are here (pre & post pay cuts):

http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Document+ID/ECED65584861BA7680256C7E00421C7E?editDocument

In addition, to a basic pay cut (at least 5%), there has been a cut in practically all allowances (apart from overseas and part pay), they have the income levy min 2%, the public service pension levy of min 3%, plus any health levys, PRSI etc etc

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0203/economy.html

[Goldie fish]

Cant remember now. 1995 I think.

[hptmurphy]

The DF are the lowest paid of ALL public sector workers

Beg to differ.

Lower grades in the HSE working in roles that do not attract premium payment or not in receipt of allowances are worse off.

I manage a department of 44 people work a basic 9 to 5 and earn the same as sergeant on the same scale point.


Where he can attract allowances and duty pay, I don't....Given the amount of responsibilty is equitable from my own experience,who is the worse off?

[Goldie fish]

Ah yes, when ye had to start paying PRSI also.

Some semi-states are still offering non-contributory (approx 30%) DB pensions. Hard to believe.

Inexcusable. I don't have banking time either.

[apod]

Beg to differ.

Lower grades in the HSE working in roles that do not attract premium payment or not in receipt of allowances are worse off.

I manage a department of 44 people work a basic 9 to 5 and earn the same as sergeant on the same scale point.


Where he can attract allowances and duty pay, I don't....Given the amount of responsibilty is equitable from my own experience,who is the worse off?

I am talking about basic pay.Allowances are not a god given right.Duties are a movable feast.Some personnel will earn extra duty money in units that are understrength in certain ranks as there are not enough bods to spread the load.The downside to that is that unless you are a totally money hungry git like some people i know your work/life balance is very skewed.Not good if you have young family.Others,in larger units of for example a Bde HQ may only get a duty once in a blue moon.
Take this one into consideration.(particularly those currently in the recruitment pipeline.)Once you pass out as a three star you will be on the bottom point of the Ptes payscale for three years untill the anniversary of your advancement to 3* star grade comes around.Also you will be on the reduced (half)rate of MSA..It will take you seven years service to reach the top point on the Ptes payscale.Which isnt much into your hand after tax and levies.

[hptmurphy]

I am talking about basic pay

So am I.

Basic domestic and catering staff, assuming they even have 39 hour contracts on a flat 39 hr week will make less than an army private on the same point of the scale.

I highlight my own case for parity.

The HSE is not the halls of wealth it is envisaged to be. The top earners are those who have the qualification to be there but then again are they worth their money?

A hospital manager depending on the size of the facility would make less than a reasonable sized supermarket manager.

in 1995 the Store managers with Superquinn before taking quarterly bonus into effect were on IR£60k.At that time a Hospital manger was on half that figure.

Currently a three hundred bed facility with approx 1100 staff would make €70,000 upwards depending on service...while a consultant Physican can make three times that.

Have no fear its the highly qualified at the top who rake it in. The non medical qualified are not those who are the high earners.

There still exists too many forms of premuim when amalgamated cause the problem but even these are too high.

In 22months in the job I have paid no member of staff overtime,now this is troublesome as I have 3 less staff than I started out with due to retirement and two more to go in the next year without replacements.

Given these are on age grounds with less than 40 years service while the gratuity may be reasonable the pension is a bout a third of a weeks wages...thats a big drop for anyone going from €500 quid a week down wards.

Simple as the people at the very top are being paid too much, no man regardless of his ability is worth 200 per anum and then have a supported private income.

This is what needs to be adressed

[Victor]

The rates are here (pre & post pay cuts):

http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Document+ID/ECED65584861BA7680256C7E00421C7E?editDocument

In addition, to a basic pay cut (at least 5%), there has been a cut in practically all allowances (apart from overseas and part pay), they have the income levy min 2%, the public service pension levy of min 3%, plus any health levys, PRSI etc etc

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0203/economy.html

Has PRSI changed?

[DeV]

Not yet but could.

I was trying to list all the deductions.

Whatever way it is written even recruits are down min 10%

[Goldie fish]

The stinger with PRSI is as soon as you go over the reasonable figure of 500 a week gross, your PRSI contribution doubles, normally leaving you with less than you had when you earned less than 500 a week gross.