Irish ROTC?

[yellowjacket]

I know this was tried briefly then abandoned in the 30s but anyway.

Both Britain and the US, among others have very successful ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corps) programmes, where students get a bursary in exchange for undertaking military/officer training both during term and holidays.

People who successfully complete these programmes are then encouraged to join up as reserve officers, or go forward for regular officer selection.

Given that it's rumoured that the PDF is moving towards taking on a greater proportion of graduates as cadets, and that RDF officers in general could do with more extensive training, could this programme work here if tried again?

[Bravo20]

It has not been included in either the reviews of the PDF or the RDF so it will probably have to wait until the next major review of the defence forces

[jpb]

it could be a good idea to have some structure in third level edu that may introduce new blood to both RDF and PDF corp's unit's, their is a severe shortage of direct entrie's for engineer's, medical and ordinance so if there was an incentive for them through education to serve on short term contract's there could be a more longer lasting turnover that could only bring the service forward.

very good idea Y/J but would the officer corp's accept them?

how could it be sold to prospective candidate's?

would the third level facilitie's allow for this?

just a couple of ?'s to get the debate going :D

[3 Star Pte FCA]

To add to jpd point, would any 3rd level graduates, be young enough to goin the ROTC consider that most 3rd level coures are 4 years long, and would probley be 22-23 years old. I know that the FCA limit is around 27? but some might want to so it could be a very good idea.

[Bravo20]

FCA limit is 32

[rod and serpent]

Certain universities in GB have University Officer Training Corps they are part of the TA. They take students usually in the freshers week of each year. They are gradually introduced in the military way of doing things usually a weekend exercise and one night a week studying a particular subject relating to the military. The course usallly lasts for a 3 year period the same length as their degree by the end of their third year they will have the rank of 2Lt ready for commisioning into a Regt /Coprps . The student are under no obligation to join up in the reserves or the regulars , but the option is there if they want it. They study mant different aspects of the military, certain universities have a better choice than others usually they will have Infantry, Engineering, Signals and Artillery this is done over the three year period. Each year they will have an annual camp where all their skills are used on a large scale exercise. To the best of my knowledge Leeds University has the best OTC in Britain. Queens in belfast has one also but they are crap its more like a drinking club.

[Groundhog]

Does an Infantry Officer need a Degree in Economics to lead a platoon in battle? No. Nor any of the officers in the other teeth arms.The practice of giving all officers a free (to them) degree is wasteful and unnecessary. What we really need is the introduction of short service commissions with the competent being retained as career officers. Engineer officers can be educated at public expense in return for a period of service with the DF, with no option to buy themselves out of it of course.

[Frank Aiken]

It would be still very inportant that we would have officers that come up thru the ranks, just because you have a degree or attend a 3 rd level college doesn't mean that you are going to make a good officer.
Ground hog is correct, you don't need a degree to lead a plt, or even to lead a coy.

[FMolloy]

You have a point Frank, having a degree does not make you a good officer. However, the same could be said of coming through the ranks. The advantage of an OTC in universities is that it may attract those with neccessary qualifications (electronics, medicine) to a career in the DF. If a student gives an undertaking to join the DF, then they get the bursary.

[jpb]

can i just say that this country is not at war and that this is not the nam era, what i am sure Y/J was trying to get across was for the need of young blood that would be willing to give the df as a whole the benifit of their education after they have qual's and received some training in the militery while at 3rd level.

though it doe's not take a degree to run a plt or coy, any officer will spend very little time on the griund with troops in his career and man management and tech is the way of the modern army and we need all that we can get so why not take those that are willing to give 2-3 yrs after qual to beef up said.

keep safe:flagwave:

[Cosantor]

I'm hearing from people that in a roundabout way that the Naval courses in CIT are attaracting people who want to get into the Naval Service as Commissioned officers.
Apparently the get thier qualifications and do work experience then the Naval Service has vaccinies that it can't fill internallly and appoints direct entries.
Seems like an alful amount of trouble to get into the service, but apparently its happing.
Also the head of the course in CIT is apparently ex- Naval Service...

[Frank Aiken]

"any officer will spend very little time on the griund with troops in his career "
I total disagree, this might have been the case years ago, when theh DF was doing very little, but look at today, ie Kosova and maybe in Librea, A Officer will spend a large time on the ground with his / her troops when in operational duty, and this is the most important time, not sitting in some office during peace time.

[trellheim]

Lets go back to the "Purchase of Commissions"


that system worked too for a VERY long time.

[JAG]

I think it would be an excellent way to go- I know a few people who went to the University of Gllamorgan ( a total shithole near Cardiff) and the college had it's own Harrier squadron.

In Irish colleges, huge numbers of people turn up, knowing no-one, and join the coolest looking club or society. I was in the Rifle Club in UCD, and we got hundreds of people who saw the rifles and thought "cool". And these were poxy air rifles.

Imagine if you had a few steyrs, MAGs etc on display.... and the number of times I was stopped by girls going through college after training so they could admire my uniform (well... two is a number)

[hptmurphy]

The Royal navy used the short service commission system alongside the direct entry method and they didn't fare too badly......It would depend on the role that these entrants would play in the running of units.I agree that the free degree system is a waste of time and that this time could be betterspent at foreign military establishments giving the trainees a better insight in to other armies.

The comissioning from the ranks system could do withan overhaul also as there are many fine NCOs in the army who would make very good officers ...unfotuanaely the'class system ' stands in the way of this and only those from the cadet school can rise to the top.

The cadet school is still geared for the 'sons of gentlemen' and this has beena major hurdle in the promotion of capable individuals who do not have the formal education to enter into this system.Also the pay structure is another stumbling block for NCOS becomming officers as in many case senior NCO is better paid than a young officer and while these guys are hugly competent they are not 'carreer minded enough ' to take a pay cut.