Ideas on how to contribute to the cuts being planned? How to get the same out of the system for less money?
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Reducing the deficit: Cuts and changes to the DF 2010 -2014
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- Rationalisation of the transport fleet over the medium term (ie similar numbers of vehicles of less types)
- Rationalisation & standardisation of everything across the DF (eg make sure all NS vessels have the same equipment - less money on training on different systems, more personnel available, lower unit purchase price, lower maintenance costs)
- Less use of DE officers, get rid of USAC, introduce short service commissions, graduates of particular areas to be targeted
- More use of IT
- Planning purchasing properly
- Close smaller barracks
- A UN mission overseas
- A properly organised & communicated reorganisation of the RDF (ie Integration to make up the shortfall in PDF establishment, that could mean the Integrated RDF would be 1,500 larger than it was supposed to be)
- Absorb FLR into SLR
- Look at entitlements to allowances (eg border allowance)
- Complusory offsets (to aid industry and jobs)
- Use the RDF
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Originally posted by ZULU View PostIdeas on how to contribute to the cuts being planned? How to get the same out of the system for less money?
there are a lot of public sector bodies that are for more likely to suffer big cuts.
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Less use of DE officers, get rid of USAC, introduce short service commissions, graduates of particular areas to be targeted
(eg make sure all NS vessels have the same equipment
You have this perception that ships are different, but look at who when and why they were built purchased and fitted out. No other peice of kit bar the AMLs are older in the DF. And they are no longer being taught at basic level.
Compare like for like, not chalk and cheese. The only way to practically do what you want re the NS is to scrap everything bar the Niamh and Roisin.
Close smaller barracks
A UN mission overseas
A properly organised & communicated reorganisation of the RDF (ie Integration to make up the shortfall in PDF establishment, that could mean the Integrated RDF would be 1,500 larger than it was supposed to be)
Absorb FLR into SLR
Look at entitlements to allowances (eg border allowance)
Use the RDF
Part from that you're doing fine.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostKind of contradictory in that those who can be given short service commissions with maximum return expected are from the 'trades' as opposed to line officers whose depend on their service for upskilling.
They do..but you can't compare a 1976 landrover with a a 2009 Mitsubishi pajero. Yes it can be fitted with the same gear but its original stuff can't be changed, chassis, body work etc and the only economic update is full replacement ensuring commonality.
You have this perception that ships are different, but look at who when and why they were built purchased and fitted out. No other peice of kit bar the AMLs are older in the DF. And they are no longer being taught at basic level.
Compare like for like, not chalk and cheese. The only way to practically do what you want re the NS is to scrap everything bar the Niamh and Roisin.
Take your top 10% from the RDF amalgamate with FLR..there's your reserve
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Originally posted by DeV View PostDue to the last lot of cuts you could argue that the DF are currently living hand to mouth!
There have a lot of new gear, and the OPVs are going ahead.
The prison service costs a fortune, as do the garda, Dermot Ahern rightly pointed out yesterday that prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse, the department of judtice will take a hit.
All in all there might be scope for further economies in the DF, but actual cuts are unlikely, the Dod are pretty efficent.Last edited by paul g; 19 October 2010, 22:10.
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Originally posted by paul g View PostNot really,
There have a lot of new gear, and the OPVs are going ahead.
Unfortually the money for the OPVs will come from somewhere, we will find out soon where from.
Dermot Ahern rightly pointed out yesterday that prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse.
All in all there might be scope for further economies in the DF, but actual cuts are unlikely
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Hi there,
Mothball 10% of every moving vehicle in each fleet type.If something goes in for overhaul, do the work and then place the vehicles in usable storage, only available for exceptional emergencies and placed in quarantine so that parts cannot be "robbed" for other vehicles. Same with aircraft and ships and guns.It cuts fuel and spares consumption at a stroke.
regards
GttC
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostBetter idea. Consolidate every thing in each brigade to one major centre per brigade and clozse everything else. Everything in Dublin and the East Coast goes to The Curragh, The South to Cork and the West to Athlone... nice tidy sums to be saved here.You can sell them of when the property market rises but for now you have reduced running costs."Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."
Otto Von Bismark
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Collins Barracks absorbed an artillery regiment(plus guns and vehicles) and a Cavalry squadron, in the 90s with very little in the way of new building, except for a garage, and new compound, which was overdue anyway.
People only take up space if they are sitting in a room all day. This is not the case with army units. Headquarters and orderly rooms at most, but the rest of the infastructure required already exists.
Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.
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Where exactly in Cork and Athlone are you going to pack in an extra two infantry battalions? Not to mention the cost involved in constructing accommodation, offices, vehicle storage, ordnance stores etc etc. Maybe if you doubled the size of these places but other than that, comlpetely unrealistic.
Again Athlone already absorbed what came off the border. A little bit of rejigging would fit another unit in there.
Getting rid of all the replication in services is where money is to be saved and it would consolidate equipment.
Unfortually the money for the OPVs will come from somewhere, we will find out soon where from.
We've been here before , we know the realities of this and it took us 30 years to recover from the last bad planning descision from the Government on behalf of the NS.Realistcally the NS has only reached its prime in the past ten years.Any reduction in ship numbers or reduction in funding would put us back to where we were in 1970.
Cots cuttting in equipment spending the DF budget will do the same to the army. Only in the recent past has the army become a credible deployable force within a european battle group scenario. Limiting funding to support this would leave us fall behind hence the need to save moey at another level.
Wages can't be touched future purchases have been streamline so the only place for savings is in infrastructure and running costs .ie. Barracks and camps.
Sure it would cause pain and social problems but if it meant the army having a viable future its realistic.
Zulus image highlighting military posts highlights how ridiculous the situation is. I wonder what the army themselves would sacrifice first, equipment, manpower or locations. Logic would say locations but then again when every little outposts is someones kingdom there will surely be resistance.
Mothball 10% of every moving vehicle in each fleet type.If something goes in for overhaul, do the work and then place the vehicles in usable storage, only available for exceptional emergencies and placed in quarantine so that parts cannot be "robbed" for other vehicles.
The waste involved in the use of army transport is huge. Tighten up on the amount of locations being served and you can reduce your transport costs dramatically.
All in all there might be scope for further economies in the DF, but actual cuts are unlikely, the Dod are pretty efficent.
The peace dividend from the good friday agreement on this side of the border has yet to be fully realized. The brits pulled 12,000 troops out of the north...we closed two small sized barracks/camps and moved the troops down the road.... and still pay them an allowance for being some where they are not!!!!
If someone lifts the shiney cover of the DF the organisation is rife with room for restructuring ..and saving a few quid on the side.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by Goldie fish View PostCollins Barracks absorbed an artillery regiment(plus guns and vehicles) and a Cavalry squadron, in the 90s with very little in the way of new building, except for a garage, and new compound, which was overdue anyway.
People only take up space if they are sitting in a room all day. This is not the case with army units. Headquarters and orderly rooms at most, but the rest of the infastructure required already exists.
Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostTake alook at the SLI as opposed to SLO or MLO, wouldn't need any more accomodation.In the case of consolidating in Cork you are talking of moving one battalion to Cork.Let the Company in Kilkenny belong to the 3rd return to the Curragh.Now look at the savings fitting one Battalion into a barracks the size of cork..no problem.
Again Athlone already absorbed what came off the border. A little bit of rejigging would fit another unit in there.
Athlone AFAIK only took a Cavalry Squadron, the Infantry from the border went to Finner and Aiken.
Getting rid of all the replication in services is where money is to be saved and it would consolidate equipment.
Wages can't be touched future purchases have been streamline so the only place for savings is in infrastructure and running costs .ie. Barracks and camps.
Zulus image highlighting military posts highlights how ridiculous the situation is. I wonder what the army themselves would sacrifice first, equipment, manpower or locations. Logic would say locations but then again when every little outposts is someones kingdom there will surely be resistance.
reduction in locations would reduce the requirement for mileage on vehicles.
The peace dividend from the good friday agreement on this side of the border has yet to be fully realized. The brits pulled 12,000 troops out of the north...we closed two small sized barracks/camps and moved the troops down the road.... and still pay them an allowance for being some where they are not!!!!
lost 22% of PDF personnel
lost 2 infantry battalions
closed 4 barracks along the border (Rockhill, Lifford, Monaghan, Castleblaney)
closed 1 more barracks fairly close to the border (Longford)
plus closed another 5 barracks around the country (Fermoy, Ballincollig, Magee, Clancy, Devoy)
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Originally posted by DeV View PostAthlone AFAIK only took a Cavalry Squadron, the Infantry from the border went to Finner and Aiken....
moved anywhere.... another example of a Bks with just one Inf Coy in it...."Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"
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There is more than 1 coy in Kilkenny.
lost 22% of PDF personnel
lost 2 infantry battalions
Fermoy ,Ballincollig,Rockhill and Lifford were only outposts again in the theme of manned or occupied posts populated by small units. God knows I did enough duties in Fermoy when they went on the border.Running of small out posts like this is very expensive and a drain on resources. I can't comment on the others.
Ballincollig was a huge site in relation to the unit based there. Good move closing it.
lost 2 infantry battalions
V.E.R related , nothing to do with peace dividend. Army was over populated with th people of a higher age profile.
reduction in locations would reduce the requirement for mileage on vehicles
True but they have to take allowances off people who are no longer entitled to them!
Thats what they are..allowances as opposed to core pay. Under Croke Park they can withdraw allowances where required and you can submit a claim for loss of earning one year afterward based on that years loss as a once off payment.
You need sufficient hard standing, dining hall capable of feeding those on meal tickets/free rations, HQs, orderly rooms, locker rooms, ablutions, SLI accomodiation etcCovid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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