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Reducing the deficit: Cuts and changes to the DF 2010 -2014

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  • #31
    How about this for a radical idea(although personally I would not like it to happen):
    1 Scrap the RDF
    2 Scrap the PDF
    3 Scrap the Aer Corps
    3 Scrap the Navy
    Replace the reserve with a national service for the age group 18-21 for 6 months, with the option to do community service instead, keep a PDF Nco and slimmed down officer corps to run this, with a potential that the best of the 18-21 group being offered a chance of going forward to be an Nco or officer. Have a Coast Guard based on the American model. And no more overseas service but the option to go on courses with other EU armies. Fairly radical I know but thats how you save money, job loses........
    :confused: ONCE YOU HAVE THEM BY THE BALLS , THEN YOU CAN WIN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS ! :

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    • #32
      Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post

      Two brigade army anyone seeing as Dermot Early isn't around to cut anymore deals?
      Well we were told by our CO that the new CS4 could be ready within a month, so a two Brigade Army could certainly be on the table.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by flash bang View Post
        How about this for a radical idea(although personally I would not like it to happen):
        1 Scrap the RDF
        2 Scrap the PDF
        3 Scrap the Aer Corps
        3 Scrap the Navy
        Have a Coast Guard based on the American model.
        I can see where you are going but why not go further and amalgamate with C&E
        Replace the reserve with a national service for the age group 18-21 for 6 months, with the option to do community service instead, keep a PDF Nco and slimmed down officer corps to run this, with a potential that the best of the 18-21 group being offered a chance of going forward to be an Nco or officer.
        And no more overseas service but the option to go on courses with other EU armies.
        If there is no O/S role and you move the CIT and EOD roles to the GS what need is there for any military training?

        Fairly radical I know but thats how you save money, job loses........
        Yes it is but not the only soluition.
        Last edited by luchi; 22 October 2010, 11:20.
        Without supplies no army is brave.

        —Frederick the Great,

        Instructions to his Generals, 1747

        Comment


        • #34
          There is no C&E to amalgamate with. C&E are a branch of the Revenue Comissioners, and have been for some time. To amalgamate the coastguard element with the C&E branch of Revenue would be like amalgamating the Prison service with the people who carry cash for banks.
          (they both lock things up, right?).


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by kermit
            G4S aren't Prison Officers, but Naval Officers are Customs Officers. ?
            G4S(or similar) carry prisoners in the UK(or have done in the past).
            Naval officers are naval officers, who have certain similar powers to customs officers, however you won't see naval officers dipping diesel on the N20.


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

            Comment


            • #36
              (yesterday)

              Deputy Tony Killeen: I apologise to Deputy Stanton;
              I missed the question about the value for money review for the RDF and another question he asked about the reserve earlier.
              It is clear that a White Paper on the Defence Forces has to consider centrally within it the role of the reserve.

              At the risk of being seen to overly impact on the process, it is instructive and interesting to consider the experience of countries where a model has evolved with a large reserve element and a small permanent element.
              We ought to be prepared to learn from other people’s experience in that regard.

              One thing which disappoints me about the development of the reserve, or what some Deputies refer to as its non-development, is that it seems in the 2005 review several actions were pointed out as necessary to progress matters.

              I have examined carefully the material available in this regard and it seems all these actions were implemented. Most people maintain the desired outcome was not reached and this must be taken into account in examining the reserve element of the White Paper.

              Equally, the value for money element will form an important part of the process of the deliberation of the White Paper.
              I cannot predict what the value for money review will propose, but there may well be recommendations to make with regard to the training of reserve people, joint exercises or, as Deputy O’Shea said, the deployment of reserve people overseas.

              To be fair, the intention was to include some reserve people and that would have happened had other circumstances, unrelated to the process, not taken place.

              That is a reasonable point and Deputy O’Shea often makes the valid point that some reserve people have capabilities, training and capacity which could be very useful in some circumstances. That is a fair point and I believe it will be borne in mind.
              Last edited by trellheim; 22 October 2010, 14:17. Reason: readability
              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

              Comment


              • #37
                I have examined carefully the material available in this regard and it seems all these actions were implemented. Most people maintain the desired outcome was not reached and this must be taken into account in examining the reserve element of the White Paper.
                Translation: The minister is being fed sh1t from on high, and has just realised it.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • #38
                  My read from that is that consideration is being given to a "large reserve, small
                  permanent element" a la Switzerland....

                  I await eagerly for comment from PDFORRA and RACO to this one...
                  "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    oh that's easy

                    Last edited by trellheim; 22 October 2010, 15:03.
                    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                      There is no C&E to amalgamate with. C&E are a branch of the Revenue Comissioners, and have been for some time. To amalgamate the coastguard element with the C&E branch of Revenue would be like amalgamating the Prison service with the people who carry cash for banks.
                      (they both lock things up, right?).
                      C&E have as much in common with RC as they do with CG/NS. There are areas of common ground. let the search and seizure function be CG and the Taxing function be RC. Or even just make the CG part of the RC.
                      Just because it isn't done doesn't mean it can't be done.

                      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                      G4S(or similar) carry prisoners in the UK(or have done in the past).
                      Naval officers are naval officers, who have certain similar powers to customs officers, however you won't see naval officers dipping diesel on the N20.
                      No but TOs should be doing it not C&E unless there is a suspicion of import.

                      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                      Translation: The minister is being fed sh1t from on high, and has just realised it.
                      I don't think so.
                      Re-org took place - most feel it didn't work
                      intergration - some say it was working but the reality is there has been no up skilling of the masses.
                      things were done but with little benifit to either PDF or RDF.
                      Without supplies no army is brave.

                      —Frederick the Great,

                      Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                        My read from that is that consideration is being given to a "large reserve, small
                        permanent element" a la Switzerland....

                        I await eagerly for comment from PDFORRA and RACO to this one...
                        I took it more as him saying that other countries have made a Reserve model that actually works, which is something we need to look at since ours quite obviously doesn't.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I don't think there is any solution , as a reservist for the past 19 years I think the minister is going to serve us a big shit sandwich and we are all going to take a bite!
                          :confused: ONCE YOU HAVE THEM BY THE BALLS , THEN YOU CAN WIN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS ! :

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Does DFHQ and DFTC really need a total of 30 full Colonels?

                            Indeed there are 203 officers of al ranks in DFHQ, with no NCOs or Privates! I presume the NCOs who work there are detached from other E Brigade units nearby?
                            DFTC has 226 officers, but if you assume a full brigade exists in the DFTC(which it doesnt), the DFTC seems to have twice as many commandants as it needs.
                            Or are these appointments merely a place to keep surplus officers?
                            Is there need for so many officers(Most at captain or commandant rank)


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Hello Alaska View Post
                              other countries have made a Reserve model that actually works,....ours quite obviously doesn't.
                              What do you mean?
                              No one requires or expects the reserve to do anything and so it does nothing quite sucessfully. There for is works as much as it is expected to.

                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              Does DFHQ and DFTC really need a total of 30 full Colonels?
                              Of course it does.
                              Or are these appointments merely a place to keep surplus officers?
                              No they are there to have somewhere to promote the officers to. If those posts weren't there then the Os would be surplus.

                              Is there need for so many officers(Most at captain or commandant rank)
                              You don't really expect the Cols to associate with lower ranks?
                              Without supplies no army is brave.

                              —Frederick the Great,

                              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Well there are 8 Corps directorates for a start

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