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  • #46
    I've been TOETed 5 or 6 times in the last 2 years. And the inconsistency is amazing. I've had one that lasted about 5 minutes where all I had to do was safeties and strip the weapon. Compared to another one I did that took nearly an hour, and covered pretty much every detail imaginable about the Steyr and firing it.

    Also why does every officer seem to have a different way of dealing with a gas stoppage!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Coolbreeze View Post
      Also why does every officer seem to have a different way of dealing with a gas stoppage!
      because they are NOT following the Pamphlet?
      RGJ

      ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

      The Rifles

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      • #48
        Traumagod may have a point of it being an E Bde issue (not retaining 154 quals on
        completion of PDF recruit / Cadet training)

        I know a colleague of mine years ago went into the PDF with a standard 154, but
        it was not recognised

        Another guy who went into the PDF was in 2 FAR. Overseas (Lebanon) he told me
        he was allowed to drive SISUs (no course done)

        When he came home, and wanted to do the course, he was told to bugger off
        that he was Arty Corps, and it was a Cav vehicle...
        "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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        • #49
          no he doesn't.

          There is a certain BTO, not EBde, that served as an FCA Cpl with a 154. When he went into the PDF he had to do the 12week driving course to regain his 154.

          I have talked to him on more than one occasion about recognition of civvi quals and carrying of RDF quals to PDF. He has always said "not possible".

          Just to make the admin a little clearer.
          [delete]
          OOPs.............. I had a long post but realises that 90% was restricted info.
          For anyone thar really wants to find out more contact one of the BTOs and ask. Its all in black and white.

          Apod your "recruit driver" was according to the 2004 regulations, not driving legally unless ordered to do so by the unit OC where no other driver was available and to wait for a driver was impractical.

          As for the O/S guy, its a bit like the old MAN Diesels. do the course but unless you are either vital or in a certain unit you can't touch them. Just like the 6x6s are becoming now!!!

          Go read the regs.
          Last edited by luchi; 18 January 2011, 10:49. Reason: remove restricted content to avoid moderation
          Without supplies no army is brave.

          —Frederick the Great,

          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

          Comment


          • #50
            There is only 3 reasons fro ANY weapon to stop
            1. no amo
            2. Stuck
            3. Mechanical faileur.
            (this includes gas, brakage, swolen barrel etc)

            The Idiot actions are also the same
            1. Make safe then unload
            2. Clear obstruction or fix the problem.(Not so easy if mechanical fail)
            3. Reload and continue.

            on automatic weapons you have the runaway, which again has simple steps to resolve.
            Why does the military make such a song and dance about it.

            Also Apod I just realised.
            The recruit driving was not being trained according to any syllibus. ou must be at least a 3* to drive under instruction on any other syllibus and according to DF training policy in the PDF the person accompanying a non qualified person must also have passed the driver instructor course or be already included on the TVMS list of approved instructors.

            AFIK those on the approved instructors list must also attend the ins crse to remain there.

            I do believe there is no driving on the recruit syllibus and yjust shows that the PDF don't follow the syllibi either so you can climb down off that high horse.
            Last edited by luchi; 18 January 2011, 11:03.
            Without supplies no army is brave.

            —Frederick the Great,

            Instructions to his Generals, 1747

            Comment


            • #51
              some rope is being allowed because people were discussing a genuine topic. This rope will easily turn into a hangmans noose if it drops back to the usual PDF-RDF-PDF ****ery

              I still think commissioning from Transport, Cav, MP (most of the driver classes ) RDF to RDF Officer gives the lie here, as you are discharged and commissioned, and get a different number. But the one or two officers I knew can still drive.

              With regard to enlistment into PDF or cadetship qualifying on the Steyr for example is part of syllabus.

              ILSW and SP Wpn courses for RDF are necessarily shortened versions and thus it would not be unreasonable to expect a ex-RDF man to redo the PDF course
              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

              Comment


              • #52
                It may be a "lie" as you say but it is still a fact as in it is the way it is.

                I don't know if you are correct but intend to find out tonight.

                I wonder if a certain officer I know in the PDF could claim for loss of earnings over the past 15 years due to not being allowed regain his 154 and thus was excluded from posts attracting the tech pay and possible promotions?

                Also there is a certain petty officer cadre with the NSR who was a driver with the 11thS&T back in 1979. AFIK he never got a 154 during his career in the NS. will he too be able to claim along with his pension?

                It is a pity that the man with the answers chooses only to lurk.
                Last edited by luchi; 18 January 2011, 12:36.
                Without supplies no army is brave.

                —Frederick the Great,

                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by luchi View Post
                  The Idiot actions are also the same
                  1. Make safe then unload
                  2. Clear obstruction or fix the problem.(Not so easy if mechanical fail)
                  3. Reload and continue.
                  No, they're not. That's the FCÁ method of dealing with stoppages. Amendment 1 of TM 309 specifies how to perform IA's. Further to this, 'Make safe' involves unloading, why would you make safe and then unload?


                  Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                  because they are NOT following the Pamphlet?
                  Exactly
                  "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by concussion View Post
                    No, they're not. That's the FCÁ method of dealing with stoppages. Amendment 1 of TM 309 specifies how to perform IA's. Further to this, 'Make safe' involves unloading, why would you make safe and then unload?
                    I think you'll find Luchi is using the wrong wording, nothing more. What he should have said is "apply safety catch, unload and clear.....etc". This led to confusion with the Make Safe procedure.
                    CRIME SCENE INSTIGATOR

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                    • #55
                      Fair enough. The IA as it pertains to the DF is still incorrect though.
                      "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by luchi View Post

                        The Idiot actions are also the same
                        1. Make safe then unload
                        2. Clear obstruction or fix the problem.(Not so easy if mechanical fail)
                        3. Reload and continue.
                        Computer says no.

                        Originally posted by REX View Post
                        I think you'll find Luchi is using the wrong wording, nothing more. What he should have said is "apply safety catch, unload and clear.....etc". This led to confusion with the Make Safe procedure.
                        Even then he's still wrong.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by luchi View Post
                          If you are discharged from the army and go back in do you retain your rank and qualifications?
                          It probably could/should be done, after all one of the forms asks about previous service.

                          also Apod TOET is the same for PDF as RDF it is only the table fired is different, the course might be different but the qualification to operate the weapon is exactly the same, so why do think that qualification should not carry over?
                          RDF soldier - trained to fire weapon
                          PDF soldier - trained to fire & tactically employ weapon



                          Originally posted by apod View Post
                          On the TOET issue,you are right there is only one way to do TOETs.BY going by the manual.The course doesnt matter and yes they should carry over and they would IF all the RDF units were doing them by the book.Which not all are.FACT.
                          So why should we take the chance??
                          Exactly... also you should TOET again prior to range if possible anyway (good practice).

                          Originally posted by luchi View Post
                          You agree the TOET is the same for everyone and then say not all TOETs are equal.

                          Either the test is the same or it is not.

                          But is it that you are really saying people are being passed who should fail. that is a totally different issue.
                          See above, OIC practices needs to know everyone is safe.

                          Originally posted by Vamp369 View Post
                          Im off the mind set everyone should have to do two hour long revision sessions, to be marked up, before even attempting TOETs
                          Doesn't mean they will know it!

                          Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                          because they are NOT following the Pamphlet?
                          We use manuals!

                          Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                          Another guy who went into the PDF was in 2 FAR. Overseas (Lebanon) he told me
                          he was allowed to drive SISUs (no course done)
                          I think SISU required a familarisation course, hence the 2 in the Curragh.


                          Originally posted by luchi View Post
                          I wonder if a certain officer I know in the PDF could claim for loss of earnings over the past 15 years due to not being allowed regain his 154 and thus was excluded from posts attracting the tech pay and possible promotions?

                          Also there is a certain petty officer cadre with the NSR who was a driver with the 11thS&T back in 1979. AFIK he never got a 154 during his career in the NS. will he too be able to claim along with his pension?
                          Only if the appointment attracts Tech Pay, eg the pte/seaman driver may qualify but not the training sgt/PO

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by concussion View Post
                            Fair enough. The IA as it pertains to the DF is still incorrect though.
                            I am gone a while but

                            is the Immediate Action Drill

                            Cock- Hook and Look

                            Cock the weapon- Hold the action to the rear- Look to see what the problem is-

                            and upon discovering what the problem is

                            Empty mag- Obstruction- Gas Stoppage

                            One utilises the taught remedies.
                            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                            Are full of passionate intensity.

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                            • #59
                              I cannot confirm or deny this on a public forum
                              "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by concussion View Post
                                I cannot confirm or deny this on a public forum
                                Is the correct answer. Luchi, I suggest that you consult a steyr manual for this information, rather than asking for it here. Everyone else, the topic is qualification transfer, not who can copy and paste the most of the steyr manual in one go.

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