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I've been TOETed 5 or 6 times in the last 2 years. And the inconsistency is amazing. I've had one that lasted about 5 minutes where all I had to do was safeties and strip the weapon. Compared to another one I did that took nearly an hour, and covered pretty much every detail imaginable about the Steyr and firing it.
Also why does every officer seem to have a different way of dealing with a gas stoppage!
Traumagod may have a point of it being an E Bde issue (not retaining 154 quals on
completion of PDF recruit / Cadet training)
I know a colleague of mine years ago went into the PDF with a standard 154, but
it was not recognised
Another guy who went into the PDF was in 2 FAR. Overseas (Lebanon) he told me
he was allowed to drive SISUs (no course done)
When he came home, and wanted to do the course, he was told to bugger off
that he was Arty Corps, and it was a Cav vehicle...
"Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"
There is a certain BTO, not EBde, that served as an FCA Cpl with a 154. When he went into the PDF he had to do the 12week driving course to regain his 154.
I have talked to him on more than one occasion about recognition of civvi quals and carrying of RDF quals to PDF. He has always said "not possible".
Just to make the admin a little clearer. [delete]
OOPs.............. I had a long post but realises that 90% was restricted info.
For anyone thar really wants to find out more contact one of the BTOs and ask. Its all in black and white.
Apod your "recruit driver" was according to the 2004 regulations, not driving legally unless ordered to do so by the unit OC where no other driver was available and to wait for a driver was impractical.
As for the O/S guy, its a bit like the old MAN Diesels. do the course but unless you are either vital or in a certain unit you can't touch them. Just like the 6x6s are becoming now!!!
Go read the regs.
Last edited by luchi; 18 January 2011, 10:49.
Reason: remove restricted content to avoid moderation
There is only 3 reasons fro ANY weapon to stop
1. no amo
2. Stuck
3. Mechanical faileur.
(this includes gas, brakage, swolen barrel etc)
The Idiot actions are also the same
1. Make safe then unload
2. Clear obstruction or fix the problem.(Not so easy if mechanical fail)
3. Reload and continue.
on automatic weapons you have the runaway, which again has simple steps to resolve.
Why does the military make such a song and dance about it.
Also Apod I just realised.
The recruit driving was not being trained according to any syllibus. ou must be at least a 3* to drive under instruction on any other syllibus and according to DF training policy in the PDF the person accompanying a non qualified person must also have passed the driver instructor course or be already included on the TVMS list of approved instructors.
AFIK those on the approved instructors list must also attend the ins crse to remain there.
I do believe there is no driving on the recruit syllibus and yjust shows that the PDF don't follow the syllibi either so you can climb down off that high horse.
some rope is being allowed because people were discussing a genuine topic. This rope will easily turn into a hangmans noose if it drops back to the usual PDF-RDF-PDF ****ery
I still think commissioning from Transport, Cav, MP (most of the driver classes ) RDF to RDF Officer gives the lie here, as you are discharged and commissioned, and get a different number. But the one or two officers I knew can still drive.
With regard to enlistment into PDF or cadetship qualifying on the Steyr for example is part of syllabus.
ILSW and SP Wpn courses for RDF are necessarily shortened versions and thus it would not be unreasonable to expect a ex-RDF man to redo the PDF course
It may be a "lie" as you say but it is still a fact as in it is the way it is.
I don't know if you are correct but intend to find out tonight.
I wonder if a certain officer I know in the PDF could claim for loss of earnings over the past 15 years due to not being allowed regain his 154 and thus was excluded from posts attracting the tech pay and possible promotions?
Also there is a certain petty officer cadre with the NSR who was a driver with the 11thS&T back in 1979. AFIK he never got a 154 during his career in the NS. will he too be able to claim along with his pension?
It is a pity that the man with the answers chooses only to lurk.
The Idiot actions are also the same
1. Make safe then unload
2. Clear obstruction or fix the problem.(Not so easy if mechanical fail)
3. Reload and continue.
No, they're not. That's the FCÁ method of dealing with stoppages. Amendment 1 of TM 309 specifies how to perform IA's. Further to this, 'Make safe' involves unloading, why would you make safe and then unload?
No, they're not. That's the FCÁ method of dealing with stoppages. Amendment 1 of TM 309 specifies how to perform IA's. Further to this, 'Make safe' involves unloading, why would you make safe and then unload?
I think you'll find Luchi is using the wrong wording, nothing more. What he should have said is "apply safety catch, unload and clear.....etc". This led to confusion with the Make Safe procedure.
The Idiot actions are also the same
1. Make safe then unload
2. Clear obstruction or fix the problem.(Not so easy if mechanical fail)
3. Reload and continue.
I think you'll find Luchi is using the wrong wording, nothing more. What he should have said is "apply safety catch, unload and clear.....etc". This led to confusion with the Make Safe procedure.
If you are discharged from the army and go back in do you retain your rank and qualifications?
It probably could/should be done, after all one of the forms asks about previous service.
also Apod TOET is the same for PDF as RDF it is only the table fired is different, the course might be different but the qualification to operate the weapon is exactly the same, so why do think that qualification should not carry over?
RDF soldier - trained to fire weapon
PDF soldier - trained to fire & tactically employ weapon
On the TOET issue,you are right there is only one way to do TOETs.BY going by the manual.The course doesnt matter and yes they should carry over and they would IF all the RDF units were doing them by the book.Which not all are.FACT.
So why should we take the chance??
Exactly... also you should TOET again prior to range if possible anyway (good practice).
I wonder if a certain officer I know in the PDF could claim for loss of earnings over the past 15 years due to not being allowed regain his 154 and thus was excluded from posts attracting the tech pay and possible promotions?
Also there is a certain petty officer cadre with the NSR who was a driver with the 11thS&T back in 1979. AFIK he never got a 154 during his career in the NS. will he too be able to claim along with his pension?
Only if the appointment attracts Tech Pay, eg the pte/seaman driver may qualify but not the training sgt/PO
Fair enough. The IA as it pertains to the DF is still incorrect though.
I am gone a while but
is the Immediate Action Drill
Cock- Hook and Look
Cock the weapon- Hold the action to the rear- Look to see what the problem is-
and upon discovering what the problem is
Empty mag- Obstruction- Gas Stoppage
One utilises the taught remedies.
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Is the correct answer. Luchi, I suggest that you consult a steyr manual for this information, rather than asking for it here. Everyone else, the topic is qualification transfer, not who can copy and paste the most of the steyr manual in one go.
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