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  • Full Military Honours

    I know that this may well have been discussed before on this site but I cannot find a thread at the moment.

    I would be interested to know the correct protocol with regard to this as my understanding is that there are in most countries well-defined protocols. If memory serves I seem only to remember "semi-military" funerals in Rhodesia in most instances and then only when death occurred in combat or on official duties.

    My own feeling is that a noble tradition becomes devalued if it falls outside fairly strict protocols.
    Last edited by timhorgan; 24 February 2011, 08:23.

  • #2
    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    I know that this may well have been discussed before on this site but I cannot find a thread at the moment.

    I would be interested to know the correct protocol with regard to this as my understanding is that there are in most countries well-defined protocols. If memory serves I seem only to remember "semi-military" funerals in Rhodesia in most instances and then only when death occurred in combat or on official duties.

    My own feeling is that a noble tradition becomes devalued if it falls outside fairly strict protocols.
    With regards to RDF depending on your length of service:

    http://www.rdfra.ie/pdf/newsletters/..._Spring_05.pdf

    Comment


    • #3
      Similar thread on P.ie. Coincidence ??
      Anyone need a spleen ?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ollie View Post
        Similar thread on P.ie. Coincidence ??
        Some prick blathering on about how this Comrade shouldnt get the respect due to him at his

        funeral.
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Comment


        • #5
          Now I know who tim horgan is on P.ie...


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
            Now I know who tim horgan is on P.ie...
            Which one is he?
            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
            Are full of passionate intensity.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
              Now I know who tim horgan is on P.ie...
              Had the same thought myself
              Anyone need a spleen ?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ollie View Post
                Had the same thought myself
                Never been on it- never read it.

                The point I was enquiring about was simply this- is the protocol devalued if practically everyone is eligible.
                Last edited by timhorgan; 24 February 2011, 17:40.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ollie View Post
                  Had the same thought myself
                  Never been on it- never read it.
                  The point I was inquiring about is simply this- is the protocol devalued if practically everyone is eligible.
                  Last edited by timhorgan; 24 February 2011, 20:56.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
                    Never been on it- never read it.
                    Te point I was inquiring about is simply this- is the protocol devalued if practically everyone is eligible.
                    I dont think protocol is the right word in this context-

                    But in answer to your question,

                    the firing of 3 volleys over the grave of a dead comrade stems from teh tradition when

                    warring factions would cease hostilites to recover the dead and the wounded from the battlefield. the 3 volleys was the signal to cease fire and then to recommence firing,

                    I think the fact every serving Soldier/Sailor/Airman gets the same type of funeral doesnt

                    devalue the senitment, rather it enhances it- because all get it.- we know the Chief

                    would have more on his firing party than a Private- but basically its the same cereomny.

                    As members of the PDF /RDF we dont get much and we ask for even less- but a Military Funeral

                    is the greatest show of respect that can be afforded a deceased.
                    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                    Are full of passionate intensity.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by timhorgan View Post

                      . If memory serves I seem only to remember "semi-military" funerals in Rhodesia in most instances and then only when death occurred in combat or on official duties.
                      .
                      Could it be that the Rhodesians were a small force and engaged on ops at a high tempo that denuded the ability to send large bodies of soldiers to funerals?

                      Also In the US every wartime soldier as far as I am aware gets a bugler, and this got to such proportions in the '90s that they ran out of buglers because so many WW2/Korea Vets were dying around the same time!
                      But there's no danger
                      It's a professional career
                      Though it could be arranged
                      With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear
                      If you're out of luck you're out of work
                      We could send you to johannesburg.

                      (Elvis Costello, Olivers Army)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [
                        QUOTE=hedgehog;327360]I dont think protocol is the right word in this context-

                        But in answer to your question,

                        the firing of 3 volleys over the grave of a dead comrade stems from teh tradition when

                        warring factions would cease hostilites to recover the dead and the wounded from the battlefield. the 3 volleys was the signal to cease fire and then to recommence firing,

                        I think the fact every serving Soldier/Sailor/Airman gets the same type of funeral doesnt

                        devalue the senitment, rather it enhances it- because all get it.- we know the Chief

                        would have more on his firing party than a Private- but basically its the same cereomny.

                        As members of the PDF /RDF we dont get much and we ask for even less- but a Military Funeral

                        Thanks HH and Turbocalves,
                        This was a genuine enquiry-As I said, I remember the term "semi-military funeral" and I always understood "full military honours" was a rarer honour.

                        But, thanks for the inf.- and I certainly do not post on Politic.ie.

                        is the greatest show of respect that can be afforded a deceased.[/QUOTE]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          HH,
                          It may be just the terminology in different countries and the term "semi-military funeral" may be just a colonial hangover- but it was used also quite recently when the CO Selous Scouts, Col. Ron Reid-Daly, died.
                          But thanks again for your help.




                          EXTRACT:- THE UMTALI POST
                          UMTALI, FRIDAY, AUGUST 13, 1976

                          TRIBUTE AT ST. JOHN'S

                          St. John's Anglican Church was overflowing on Wednesday morning for the semi-military funeral service of Sergeant Howard Lunderstedt, killed with four comrades by terrorists on Sunday.

                          Pall bearers were from the 4th (Manicaland) Battalion, The Rhodesia Regiment. Members of the unit also provided a guard of honour.

                          The cremation service was read by the Rector of St. John's, the Rev. John Knight, and Captain the Rev. Ivan Carson, 3 Brigade Chaplain, read from the Scriptures and paid tribute to the dead man.

                          Many people, including civic and Government and Service representatives, who later attended the afternoon service in the Queen's Hall were present

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
                            NTe point I was inquiring about is simply this- is the protocol devalued if practically everyone is eligible.
                            Define practically everyone!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              Define practically everyone!

                              Hi Dev,I did not intend this to be a contentious debate-it was a fairly straightforward question- and the answer seems to be here from Arlington Cemetery where it distinguishes between the standard honour and full military.



                              http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/cer..._funerals.html


                              And Wiki is also helpful--

                              In the United States, there are several types of military funerals such as those performed at Arlington National Cemetery, which include and omit certain components depending on the status of the deceased (active, retired, veteran, rank/occupation).[4]

                              Standard honor military funerals include the following:
                              A military chaplain for family members.
                              A casket draped in the flag of the United States and as a pall.
                              A casket team serving as honor guards in a ceremonial role over the remains and as pallbearers.
                              For funerals of service members with a non-commissioned grade of E-9 and above, the casket is transported via a horse-drawn limbers and caissons. For all other funerals, the casket is transported using a hearse.
                              Fighter jets in missing man formation by the United States Air Force may perform an aerial flyover.
                              The formation of a rifle party consisting of an odd number of service members, between 3 to 7, will fire a 3-volley salute (size varies according to the rank of the deceased).
                              The playing of Taps is performed by a lone bugler or an audio recording, at a distance 30 to 50 yards from the grave site while a “Final Salute” is given.

                              Full honor military funerals, in addition to all standard honors, include the following:

                              For funerals of commanding officers of O-6 (Colonel/Captain) and above, a caparisoned, riderless horse, symbolizing a fallen leader, will follow the limbers and caissons.
                              For funerals of general officers and flag officers of O-10 (4 star rank), a 17 gun salute is fired; O-9 (3 star rank), a 15 gun salute is fired; O-8 (2 star rank), a 13 gun salute is fired; O-7 (1 star rank), a 11 gun salute is fired.
                              A military band and an escort platoon participate (size varies according to the rank of the deceased).
                              Armed forces military funerals, in addition to all full honors, include the following:

                              Escort platoons from all five branches of the United States Armed Forces participate.
                              These funerals are reserved for the President of the United States (as commander-in-chief), the Secretary of Defense, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and officers granted multiple-service command.
                              For funerals of presidents, a 21 gun salute using artillery and battery pieces is fired (not to be confused with a three-volley salute), while all other high state officials receive 19-gun salutes.
                              Last edited by timhorgan; 24 February 2011, 21:07.

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