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Irishmilitaryonline.com Submission to Green Paper/White Paper on Defence

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  • It's the damage they do while in there is the problem.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • Were the internet around in 1932, there would be lads be saying the same about Fianna Fáil, that they destroy the economy if they got in, etc.

      And they'd be right

      Comment


      • Some of us were saying that in the early noughts!

        Comment


        • PDFORRA's views
          http://pdforra.ie/news/?p=992

          A veterans' policy
          Keep the triple lock
          Increase the strength to 10,500
          Reverse the reorg
          A "dedicated training establishment"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Increase the strength to 10,500
            Never going to happen

            Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Reverse the reorg
            Never going to happen

            Originally posted by DeV View Post
            A "dedicated training establishment"
            As opposed to the BTC staffs in each Bde, Inf School, NCOTW, UNTSI, C&S School, Arty School, Cav School, Engineer School, MP School, Transport School, Catering School, Ordnance School, CIS School and Medical School?


            If that article is accurate as to PDFORRA's submission on the Whitepaper I am very disappointed. RACOs submission covers additional capabilities so as to future proof the roles of the DF and to ensure that there is funding there for that in 10 years time as opposed to suddenly realising we need to be able to provide X role and needing to take the money out of the same pot. PDFORRAs submission seems to be very much focused on trying to get back what they feel they lost in the past as opposed to trying to build a future for their members

            Comment


            • It's an official PDFORRA article so it should be assumed it is correct

              Comment


              • At our work do the other night one of my managers proceeded to tell me about his mate.
                Evidently he is a captain in an affluent post.
                On his wages and un duty money he lives comfortably with his wife and 2kids in a 4 bed semi-d.

                This is a stark contrast to the posts that have been put on IMO telling of soldiers needing hand outs because of poor pay and conditions.

                Isn't it no wonder then that RACCO and PDFORRA have totally differing points of view.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Saab View Post
                  On his wages and un duty money he lives comfortably with his wife and 2kids in a 4 bed semi-d.
                  So you begrudge a Captain his overseas allowances but not an enlisted man? These allowances were cut this year BTW.

                  I do not know where this Captain lives but if he is living in a rural area a 4 bed semi D could be worth as little as 100k

                  Comment


                  • And if he is receiving UN duty money he isn't living in his office as he is overseas

                    Nothing to say that the wife doesn't have a highly paid job

                    Maybe he inherited the house/bought before the boom
                    Last edited by DeV; 22 December 2013, 00:41.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
                      Never going to happen


                      Never going to happen


                      As opposed to the BTC staffs in each Bde, Inf School, NCOTW, UNTSI, C&S School, Arty School, Cav School, Engineer School, MP School, Transport School, Catering School, Ordnance School, CIS School and Medical School?


                      If that article is accurate as to PDFORRA's submission on the Whitepaper I am very disappointed. RACOs submission covers additional capabilities so as to future proof the roles of the DF and to ensure that there is funding there for that in 10 years time as opposed to suddenly realising we need to be able to provide X role and needing to take the money out of the same pot. PDFORRAs submission seems to be very much focused on trying to get back what they feel they lost in the past as opposed to trying to build a future for their members
                      Their longing to retain the Triple lock is also well outside their remit, as a representative organisation.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Saab View Post
                        This is a stark contrast to the posts that have been put on IMO telling of soldiers needing hand outs because of poor pay and conditions.

                        Isn't it no wonder then that RACCO and PDFORRA have totally differing points of view.
                        The wages of officers and enlisted men of the PDF are a matter of public record. If one wants to see them, one can check the DOD website for the most up to date scales. Obviously the higher up the food chain you go the more you get paid.

                        One also has to remember that plenty of officers and enlisted men made mistakes during the boom years and invested in property that should really have been outside their means, poor fiscal management is not determained by rank, having said that, getting paid monthly tends to force someone to budget a bit better. As well as the declaration of solvency thats taken upon comissioning.

                        The other factor to consider is that when claiming benefits and social welfare the wages of both partners are taken into consideration. As a general point of comment, I would say that in my observation that it is considerably more likely for an officer in the PDF to be married to a salaried profesional such as a Dr, Solicitor or in the most unthinkable of scearios another officer (milcest!) etc than an enlisted man, thus boosting the household wage.

                        This isn't to do with class, I think its more education. People who go to as non mature students tend to forge relationships whilst they are there, where they're more likely to meet someone with a professional career etc....
                        Last edited by northie; 22 December 2013, 08:54.

                        Comment


                        • I think some of you are reading something that I didn't actually say.

                          I don't begrudge any one anything.

                          IF
                          As my manager says a captain, with wife ans 2 kids, is able to live comfortably
                          AND
                          As a number of IMOers have posted other ranks are struggling and requiring income support to survive.
                          THEN
                          RACCO and PDFORRA have very different concerns and thus will view things differently.

                          I make no comment on this situation other than it's reason for being.

                          Comment


                          • The Defence Forces are too small and too ill equipped. I have to agree about making Defence 1.5% of GDP and increasing troop numbers to 10,500 at least but I can't see how that will ever happen.

                            As for hardware we could do with some leopard tanks, 2 frigates and some kind of jet like the Grippen but of course that is all a bit OTT for Ireland.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by andy View Post
                              As for hardware we could do with some leopard tanks, 2 frigates and some kind of jet like the Grippen but of course that is all a bit OTT for Ireland.
                              Agree with most of what you say - the frigates and jets make perfect sense, but really, what on earth does this country need Leopard tanks for?? They'd never be deployed and by the time we'd need them here it'd be too late unless we want to ensure the "love Ulstrer" mob do not walk doen O'Connell street but I think even the Scorpions could manage to stop that.

                              Comment


                              • So now all the submissions are in, presentations more or less done. Does anyone want to make any White Paper predictions?

                                Comment

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