Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Irishmilitaryonline.com Submission to Green Paper/White Paper on Defence

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • It is with profound regret I must announce, that due to work commitments and conflicts, I am now unable to give the commitment required to make a contribution as part of any IMO submission. I can only hope that someone else on this site, who has read the core of what I post here, will make a submission that would mirror any suggestions I would make.


    'Yvan eht Nioj'


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
      It is with profound regret I must announce, that due to work commitments and conflicts, I am now unable to give the commitment required to make a contribution as part of any IMO submission. I can only hope that someone else on this site, who has read the core of what I post here, will make a submission that would mirror any suggestions I would make.


      'Yvan eht Nioj'
      I get the impression there's a few IMOers making their own submissions, I'm sure someone will carry your thoughts forward.

      Comment


      • This document more or less sums up my thoughts. Very well put together too.

        https://sites.google.com/site/theirishmaritimeforum/

        SUMMARY




        The relationship between the various arms of the Irish Defence Forces was determined in the 1940s, at a time when Irish maritime jurisdiction was limited to three nautical miles from shore and the major threat was from interstate conflict in Europe. Irish defence policy was almost exclusively land-oriented.




        While many advances, in terms of resources and capability, have been made in all Arms of the Defence Forces the basic organisational structure is still rooted in the early part of the last century. It takes little account of Ireland’s island status or of the dramatic increases in Ireland's maritime, indeed oceanic, jurisdiction and responsibilities, which are now fully recognised in other fora, nationally and internationally. This has led to imbalances in Defence policy and decision making.




        The security situation on land has improved and the threats presented by internal conflict and instability have diminished to a large degree. At the same time the challenges posed by an expanded maritime domain have correspondingly increased. This situation presents an opportunity to shift the emphasis from largely land oriented defence and security to a more balanced posture by increasing the emphasis on controlling our maritime domain.




        There is an obvious and pressing need for a root-and-branch, open-minded approach to Irish defence planning and capability, not based on minor adjustments to the 1940’s status quo, but on recognition of the fundamentally changed circumstances of the 21st Century.

        It is to be hoped that the forthcoming White Paper will illustrate such an approach.



        The Irish Maritime Forum urges:
        • That the opportunity presented by this White Paper be grasped to develop a holistic policy for Irish maritime defence and security,
        • That there be senior and continuous Naval representation on the Steering and Working Groups preparing the White Paper,
        • That the position of the Navy within the Defence Organisation be upgraded to match international norms,
        • That the strength and composition of the navy be enhanced,
        • That Irish naval assets participate in UN/EU sponsored missions to promote international maritime security,
        • That our naval force be titled The Irish Navy (Cabhlach na h-Éireann),
        • That the balance between the elements of Ireland’s Defence Forces reflects that fact that we are an island nation.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • There's an advert in An Cosantoir for personnel to make submissions through the chain of command for inclusion in the DF submission

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            There's an advert in An Cosantoir for personnel to make submissions through the chain of command for inclusion in the DF submission
            I can see a huge response to that. (said nobody, in the world, ever)


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              There's an advert in An Cosantoir for personnel to make submissions through the chain of command for inclusion in the DF submission
              And with that, the Defence Forces procurement of black marker pens increased.

              Comment


              • Sorry it isn't through CoC, it is to a DF email address

                Comment


                • Today is the last day for submissions.

                  Did anybody bother

                  Comment


                  • Was there not an extension on the deadline for submissions from groups and RAs??

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by swiftandsure View Post
                      was there not an extension on the deadline for submissions from groups and ras??
                      no all due in yesterday

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by moggy View Post
                        no all due in yesterday
                        Interesting.

                        Comment


                        • Betting that RDFRA will have missed that deadline
                          Last edited by ODIN; 12 October 2013, 07:40.
                          What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                            Betting that RDFRA will have missed that deadline :P
                            I have no idea, but I'm sure I'd heard somewhere that there was an extension in the deadline for groups and RAs to make their submissions/presentations.

                            Has PDFORRA and RACO published their submissions at all?

                            Comment


                            • Green Paper on Defence

                              403. Deputy Jack Wall asked the Minister for Defence the number of submissions he has received to date on the Green Paper on Defence consultations held by his Department; the expected time line for the White Paper on Defence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [53117/13]

                              Minister for Defence (Deputy Alan Shatter): The Green Paper on Defence, which was published earlier this year, initiated a public consultative process which will inform the development of the next White Paper on Defence. The response to the request for submissions has been very positive. 122 submissions were received from a wide and diverse range of sources. As part of the consultative process, a number of people who made written submissions have been invited to meet with civil and military staff of the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces. The purpose of these meetings is to provide the opportunity to certain individuals/organisations to elaborate further on their submission. It also allows the representatives from the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces to explore aspects of these submissions. These meetings are ongoing and will continue into early 2014.

                              The White Paper on Defence is due to be completed and submitted to Government for approval in 2014.


                              White Paper on Defence

                              2. Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn asked the Minister for Defence if he will dispel concerns that the proud tradition of positive neutrality of this State will not be undermined as part of the process of developing the White Paper on Defence. [52920/13]

                              Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Recently a Red C poll revealed that eight of ten respondents favoured the retention of neutrality, which is a proud tradition. The Minister will be aware of concerns at the beginning of the receipt of submissions on the White Paper on Defence. I would like him to take the opportunity to allay those concerns and to reaffirm the principle of neutrality on behalf of the Irish people.

                              Deputy Alan Shatter: This is an issue the Deputy returns to obsessively. The Green Paper on Defence, which was published earlier this year, initiated a broad consultative process, as the Deputy will be aware, that will inform the development of the next White Paper on Defence. One of the questions posed in the Green Paper was: "How can our policy of military neutrality be dovetailed with increasing requirements for collective security co-operation?" Our policy of military neutrality was formed in an era when interstate conflict was the key issue of national security for most states. The State’s policy of remaining outside military alliances has remained in place ever since. Thankfully, the threat of intestate war in Europe is substantially diminished.
                              However, there are new and emerging threats in the defence and security environment. The reality is that the world has evolved to such an extent that no country alone can respond adequately to the threats in the defence and security environment. The range of threats set out in the assessment in the Green Paper is comprehensive. Inevitably, there will be threats and challenges that have not yet been anticipated. It is reasonable to assume that complex, interrelated and transnational security challenges will increase into the future. It is also reasonable to conclude that security challenges will require enhanced collective and comprehensive approach, and that there will be an increasing emphasis on security co-operation.

                              I believe that continued support for the United Nations will remain a central point of our foreign policy approach and objectives. This includes the protection of human rights and of our overall security policy, including non-membership of military alliances. Support for the UN will also remain central to our overall security policy.

                              Our Defence Forces are deployed as part of multinational and multi-agency responses for a broad range of security tasks, many of which contribute to the maintenance of international peace and stability. Our policy responses must realistically reflect current and future security challenges and should be able to accommodate the necessary responses, both national and collective, without prejudice to our policy of military neutrality.

                              Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: First, Ireland is in a strong position to play a positive role in global conflicts through its neutrality. We are proud of the role our peacekeeping forces play in blue helmet operations on an ongoing basis. Second, with regard to conflict resolution, the lessons of our own peace process are being utilised across the world, most recently in Colombia. These lessons had a huge impact and people who came through the peace process assisted on an ongoing basis on the path to peace in that country. Third, we have a proud history in the provision of overseas development aid. We are one of the world leaders in that area. That is our role in the world and we do no need to be involved in military alliances to stake our claim and to do our bit for the world. What are the Minister's thoughts on those three pillars of positive neutrality? Are they sufficient or do we need more?

                              Deputy Alan Shatter: I welcome the fact that the Deputy's party, Fianna Fáil and others contributed to the Green Paper process by making a submission. I was interested in Sinn Féin's submission in the context of the issue the Deputy has raised. It states, "The Green Paper on Defence states that military neutrality is a policy which was formed in the context of interstate armed conflict". We are agreed on that. The submission further states the Green Paper "is ill-fitted to respond to threats emanating from non-state actors such as terrorists". I know the Deputy's party is soft on terrorism but I am not sure to what extent he can suggest that military neutrality has a role to play in regard to terrorism. Is he suggesting that if terrorists explode a bomb in London or Madrid, we should proclaim our neutrality from the rooftops as some sort of moral standpoint of a higher echelon than those who say, "This is a bad thing, we are opposed to terrorists and we should join together in preventing innocent people being killed by terrorists"?

                              An Ceann Comhairle: I thank the Minister.

                              Deputy Alan Shatter: Sinn Féin in its submission referred to "the need for a human security-based approach", which seems to simply be that if we feed the world, there will be no terrorism.

                              An Ceann Comhairle: The Minister is way over his time. I have to ask him to co-operate with the Chair. I will let him back in again.

                              Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: The Minister is one of the greatest talents I have ever seen at answering a question he has not been asked. He has an incredible talent for going off on a different tangent.

                              Deputy Alan Shatter: I wanted to assure the Deputy that I had read his submission.

                              Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: There are three positive pillars of neutrality of which we are deeply proud in this country. We do not need to open Shannon Airport for aircraft to refuel and restock on their way to operations that are not backed by the international community and we do not need to be involved in military alliances.

                              With regard to combatting the changed threat of terrorism, there is a range of exchanges of intelligence and co-operation through Europol and so on that everybody supports to tackle the threat. However, if Ireland can genuinely get itself back to a truly neutral position in the context of overseas development aid, conflict resolution and the lessons we have learned in our own country, we can play a much stronger role in combating the threat of terrorism than being involved in military alliances with countries that have fuelled it.

                              Deputy Alan Shatter: I am somewhat puzzled as to what military alliances the Deputy thinks we are engaged in. We are a party to the European Common Security and Defence Policy. That is of importance to this State, as it is to the rest of Europe. If there are issues relating to cybersecurity or terrorism, we have an interest in this State in ensuring difficulties do not arise and in co-operating with other states regarding how we counteract those issues. We are engaged in Partnership for Peace, PfP, with NATO. NATO is like a four-letter word to some Members. PfP is about a group of like-minded nations coming together to provide peackeeping supports and humanitarian relief in regions where there are major difficulties. That does not taint or contaminate our military neutrality. It is about engagement, not isolation. It is about doing what we can to assist people across the world in conflict zones where there are difficulties instead of sticking our heads in the sand and moralising. I go for engagement, not for sticking one's head in the sand, moralising and waving a neutrality flag as if we have a superior moral compass directing us. We should be proud of our engagements internationally and of what our Defence Forces do.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment


                              • An amusing contribution from SF's Padraig McLochlann who the Minister correctly accuses of "obsessing" about neutrality which we all know has the potential to scupper any serious WP initiatives.

                                McLochlann; "We are proud of the role our peacekeeping forces play in blue helmet operations on an ongoing basis. Second, with regard to conflict resolution, the lessons of our own peace process are being utilised across the world, most recently in Colombia." ..................is he referring to the Provos attempts to train the FARC?
                                Last edited by Pure Hover; 12 December 2013, 20:42.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X