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Irishmilitaryonline.com Submission to Green Paper/White Paper on Defence

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  • Pure Hover
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
    So are we any closer to seeing a white paper in 2014? Surely there are rumours?
    None that I've heard anyway. With Shatter gone,who, love him or loathe him had a particular penchant for getting legislation enacted, it's unlikely to see much progress despite the sterling efforts of the SPO. Sure whats a 4 year delay anyhow?

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  • na grohmiti
    replied
    So are we any closer to seeing a white paper in 2014? Surely there are rumours?

    Leave a comment:


  • ropebag
    replied
    aspirations will be significant - NS participation in international CT/CP operations, AC operations in support of overseas deployments including aquisition of tactical airlift, but the determining factor will be 'resource envelope'. no move of triple lock, lots of guff about international engagement.

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  • morpheus
    replied
    *drum roll please*

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  • SwiftandSure
    replied
    So now all the submissions are in, presentations more or less done. Does anyone want to make any White Paper predictions?

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  • The Connaught Ranger
    replied
    Originally posted by andy View Post
    As for hardware we could do with some leopard tanks, 2 frigates and some kind of jet like the Grippen but of course that is all a bit OTT for Ireland.
    Agree with most of what you say - the frigates and jets make perfect sense, but really, what on earth does this country need Leopard tanks for?? They'd never be deployed and by the time we'd need them here it'd be too late unless we want to ensure the "love Ulstrer" mob do not walk doen O'Connell street but I think even the Scorpions could manage to stop that.

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  • andy
    replied
    The Defence Forces are too small and too ill equipped. I have to agree about making Defence 1.5% of GDP and increasing troop numbers to 10,500 at least but I can't see how that will ever happen.

    As for hardware we could do with some leopard tanks, 2 frigates and some kind of jet like the Grippen but of course that is all a bit OTT for Ireland.

    Leave a comment:


  • Saab
    replied
    I think some of you are reading something that I didn't actually say.

    I don't begrudge any one anything.

    IF
    As my manager says a captain, with wife ans 2 kids, is able to live comfortably
    AND
    As a number of IMOers have posted other ranks are struggling and requiring income support to survive.
    THEN
    RACCO and PDFORRA have very different concerns and thus will view things differently.

    I make no comment on this situation other than it's reason for being.

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  • northie
    replied
    Originally posted by Saab View Post
    This is a stark contrast to the posts that have been put on IMO telling of soldiers needing hand outs because of poor pay and conditions.

    Isn't it no wonder then that RACCO and PDFORRA have totally differing points of view.
    The wages of officers and enlisted men of the PDF are a matter of public record. If one wants to see them, one can check the DOD website for the most up to date scales. Obviously the higher up the food chain you go the more you get paid.

    One also has to remember that plenty of officers and enlisted men made mistakes during the boom years and invested in property that should really have been outside their means, poor fiscal management is not determained by rank, having said that, getting paid monthly tends to force someone to budget a bit better. As well as the declaration of solvency thats taken upon comissioning.

    The other factor to consider is that when claiming benefits and social welfare the wages of both partners are taken into consideration. As a general point of comment, I would say that in my observation that it is considerably more likely for an officer in the PDF to be married to a salaried profesional such as a Dr, Solicitor or in the most unthinkable of scearios another officer (milcest!) etc than an enlisted man, thus boosting the household wage.

    This isn't to do with class, I think its more education. People who go to as non mature students tend to forge relationships whilst they are there, where they're more likely to meet someone with a professional career etc....
    Last edited by northie; 22 December 2013, 08:54.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
    Never going to happen


    Never going to happen


    As opposed to the BTC staffs in each Bde, Inf School, NCOTW, UNTSI, C&S School, Arty School, Cav School, Engineer School, MP School, Transport School, Catering School, Ordnance School, CIS School and Medical School?


    If that article is accurate as to PDFORRA's submission on the Whitepaper I am very disappointed. RACOs submission covers additional capabilities so as to future proof the roles of the DF and to ensure that there is funding there for that in 10 years time as opposed to suddenly realising we need to be able to provide X role and needing to take the money out of the same pot. PDFORRAs submission seems to be very much focused on trying to get back what they feel they lost in the past as opposed to trying to build a future for their members
    Their longing to retain the Triple lock is also well outside their remit, as a representative organisation.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    And if he is receiving UN duty money he isn't living in his office as he is overseas

    Nothing to say that the wife doesn't have a highly paid job

    Maybe he inherited the house/bought before the boom
    Last edited by DeV; 22 December 2013, 00:41.

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  • midnight oil
    replied
    Originally posted by Saab View Post
    On his wages and un duty money he lives comfortably with his wife and 2kids in a 4 bed semi-d.
    So you begrudge a Captain his overseas allowances but not an enlisted man? These allowances were cut this year BTW.

    I do not know where this Captain lives but if he is living in a rural area a 4 bed semi D could be worth as little as 100k

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  • Saab
    replied
    At our work do the other night one of my managers proceeded to tell me about his mate.
    Evidently he is a captain in an affluent post.
    On his wages and un duty money he lives comfortably with his wife and 2kids in a 4 bed semi-d.

    This is a stark contrast to the posts that have been put on IMO telling of soldiers needing hand outs because of poor pay and conditions.

    Isn't it no wonder then that RACCO and PDFORRA have totally differing points of view.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    It's an official PDFORRA article so it should be assumed it is correct

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  • midnight oil
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Increase the strength to 10,500
    Never going to happen

    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Reverse the reorg
    Never going to happen

    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    A "dedicated training establishment"
    As opposed to the BTC staffs in each Bde, Inf School, NCOTW, UNTSI, C&S School, Arty School, Cav School, Engineer School, MP School, Transport School, Catering School, Ordnance School, CIS School and Medical School?


    If that article is accurate as to PDFORRA's submission on the Whitepaper I am very disappointed. RACOs submission covers additional capabilities so as to future proof the roles of the DF and to ensure that there is funding there for that in 10 years time as opposed to suddenly realising we need to be able to provide X role and needing to take the money out of the same pot. PDFORRAs submission seems to be very much focused on trying to get back what they feel they lost in the past as opposed to trying to build a future for their members

    Leave a comment:

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