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  • Public perception of the RDF and Defence Forces in General

    Just something that struck me over the weekend. I was out scouting a wedding band for my upcoming nuptuals and brought a friends with me as herself was working and doesn't trust my judgement (typical woman!). Anyways the fella along with me asked how I was getting on with the reserves and how the re-org was going to effect me. And one of the ladies then asked was I still in the FCA, followed by the sure ye only go there to go drinking.

    I politely told her that the FCA was disbanded in 2005. "oh what are they called now?" was the reply. I proceeded then to tell her about the way kit has improved, we are being re-org'ed again, training courses I have done, things we get up to etc. and in that 5 min conversation I swung her opinion of the Reserves 180 degrees.

    I know in general the military in this country are looked at like the dirt on the underside of ones shoes, and the reserve as the dirt that didn't even make it to the shoes.

    My question to you fellow PDF/RDF and everything in between, is there anything we can do to boost the opinion the public have of us? Does it piss you off (like me) when you are still called an FCA man/woman? I recall doing a guard of honour 2 years ago and the TD escorting the guest when introducing us called us the FCA, I was ready to split him.

    I don't want this to turn into a PDF v RDF slagging match and even to our PDF brothers is there anything collectively we can do (within reason and off our on bat) to improve the public's image of the Defence Forces, because to me it seems that it is:

    Army: Sure all they do is go to the leb for a cushy tour, stand on the street with the banks and do the EOD.

    Navy: detain fishing vessels, no mention of anything else.

    Air Corp: Patient transfers, state trips, no mention of the other work they do.

    All coupled with "sure we are neutral, why do we need an army/air corps/navy", never mind a reserve of any of them. Is it simply a case of the Irish mentality of being ignorant to anything other than what effects oneself? Have the Irish no pride in their Defence Forces anymore, once we got our independence that was enough and this has been passed down through generations?

    The oh sure it's grand attitude. Or is it up to us as members who swore an oath to go out and change opinions? in one 5 min talk I swung one person around, if everyone did that it would be a start. I wonder in this year of the gathering and celebrating our "irishness" coupled with the founding of the Irish Volunteers, can our nations attitudes/opinions be changed?

    This has probably been done to death in other threads, but it is my Monday rant!

  • #2
    "What do we need an army for? we are never going to war / we'll never be invaded."

    Pretty standard fare these days when discussing economic policy.

    For some reason its easier to sack 9500 soldiers than 9500 nurses/gardai/insert your favourite public servant here

    I think the press office are doing a reasonable job these days of promoting the defence forces, however it is probably far to little far to late, and they can't get into a political debate as to why we need a defence force.

    The RDF doesnt even register in the publics mind, all they can think about it is the old free clothes association stereotypes..
    You're even dumber than I tell people

    You might have been infected but you never were a bore

    Comment


    • #3
      I think that at a grass roots level, the RDF does what is expected of it. Provide a local point of contact with the DF.

      Obviously depending on local unit / community integration will determine the level of success.

      the FCA of old used to participate in local parades including St Patricks Day and the Eucharistic Processions as well as organising public equipment displays and schools visits etc. That created a public profile locally and provided PR for the DF as a whole.

      With the changes to the RDF it will become more difficult as most units are barracks centred now.

      All anyone in the RDF can do as far as I can see it to parade frequently and enthusiastically and allow their organisation to flourish based on earning the trust and respect of the MA which in time will allow them to take on more high profile roles

      Comment


      • #4
        All anyone in the RDF can do as far as I can see it to parade frequently and enthusiastically and allow their organisation to flourish based on earning the trust and respect of the MA which in time will allow them to take on more high profile roles
        And that exact policy practised by the RDF has worked well for the last 50 years ? Seems to me the trust from the PDF MA from doing exactly the above is f-k all.
        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

        Comment


        • #5
          RDF will be able to work more closely with PDF counterparts in the reorg and take on roles previously never imagined - e.g. res elements of 1 Mech Inf Coy and 1 ACS.

          Comment


          • #6
            As regards public knowledge and perception you have a challannge the reasons for which I suspect go back to 1922/3 and in fact long before this (an other thread).
            An even a greater challenge educating our 'politicians'. Following the 2011 visits of the USA and British heads of state, major gorse fires etc. our Taoiseach presented the COS with a 'Gradam an Taoiseach' plaque! Some 'Gradam'. The same Taoiseach merged Dod with Justice and other add ons, did more damage to the DF than Prov SF/IRA could have dreamt of in the last 40 years, appointed a Minister who has zero interest (not so unusual but very blatant).....the list goes on.

            Where do you start? The DF Press Office is very dynamic but in general people are not interested. Look at the moronic comments made on the net following DF articles. I do despair at times!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Battletour View Post
              The same Taoiseach merged Dod with Justice and other add ons, did more damage to the DF than Prov SF/IRA could have dreamt of in the last 40 years, appointed a Minister who has zero interest (not so unusual but very blatant).....the list goes on.
              To be fair the DF has faired a lot better than GS from the shared minister.

              We have ongoing promotions, GS don't.
              We have ongoing recruitment, GS have not recruited for 5 years as far as I am aware
              We have had some new equipment (LTAV), to the best of my knowledge GS have not
              We have had several new o/s missions open up during the tenure of the current minister

              Okay, both have had to tighten belts, most obviously and public is last week's GS stations closing but I think we are doing okay,

              I think that the press office went a bit over board a few years back and thankfully they have reined back a bit where they were effectively pimping out the DF for any sort of PR stunt they could think of

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
                To be fair the DF has faired a lot better than GS from the shared minister.

                We have ongoing promotions, GS don't.
                We have ongoing recruitment, GS have not recruited for 5 years as far as I am aware
                We have had some new equipment (LTAV), to the best of my knowledge GS have not
                We have had several new o/s missions open up during the tenure of the current minister
                All of the above was granted after serious cost cutting in the DF, manpower levels getting stupidly low and most likely a deal sweetener to go along with the re-org and barrack closures.

                As for o/s missions, the only major troop deployment on a mission we have is UNIFIL and that mission as a whole, is a step backwards for the DF after Chad.

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                • #9
                  Maybe the DF are doing better because they cut their numbers by 21% and closed almost 33% of their barracks over the last 16 years ?!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
                    RDF will be able to work more closely with PDF counterparts in the reorg and take on roles previously never imagined - e.g. res elements of 1 Mech Inf Coy and 1 ACS.
                    I wonder will the MOWAG Crewman and Commanders Courses fit into 7 days FTT ?!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Exactly, the DF are told to do something and we just get on and do it. GS are told do the same and they bitch, whinge and moan about it, demand allowances and threaten all sorts then walk away from the negotiation table.

                      Manpower levels are not "stupidly low" we now have an organisational structure to reflect our strength. We now have regiments squadrons and battalions that are full, some for the first time ever.
                      Another mission like Chad was a no runner when you look at the costs associated with that mission there is no way that we as an organisation in the current climate could afford another mission.

                      The DF still has not been paid by the UN for the Chad deployment, in fact last year or maybe the end of 2011 when I was talking to OIC Logs Admin about it we were still negotiating payment for the 2006 UNIFIL deployment so it is not a case of money sitting waiting to be collected.

                      to the public, the Leb is the only place the DF has ever served in. It might not be as advanced as some of the missions we were involved with over the recent years but it still gives commanders at all levels a real test of their leadership which they just do not get at home. Lets not forget how dangerous the Leb is, we lost on average a man a trip during out commitment there previously, it is not a holiday camp on the edge of the Med!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The best bit of PR in recent years was the DF display on the Late Late Show a while back with General Earley and the lads heading to Chad. Thomond Park was good too when the Air Corps delivered the match ball. But apart from those, the DF either doesn't register or has a negative opinion among the public IMO.

                        RDFers won't be doing public displays because of limited recruitment. We're still viewed very much with the FCA goggles. I hate being called that to be honest. I was never even in the FCA for flip sake!
                        I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                        Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                        Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                        And whistled early with the lark.

                        In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                        With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                        He put a bullet through his brain.
                        And no one spoke of him again.

                        You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                        Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                        Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                        The hell where youth and laughter go.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          With regards perceptions and in this particular case misconceptions with regards the role of the Irish Defence Forces,

                          I think it sad to see these type of comments on F.B. with regards Mali and a possible Irish.D.F. Training Mission.

                          The original poster is an ex-PDF Veteran with UNIFIL Service:-

                          I hope the government aren't jumping too quickly offering the services of the Defence Forces. It was reported on RTE that the Malian Army are summarily executing people who are "suspected" of helping the Al Queda militias. It seems as the French forces roll through and clear areas,the Malian Army are taking up and holding these areas and it looks like old scores are being settled. We seem to be ready to get involved in these conflicts at the drop of a hat now that every mission seems to be mandated by the U.N. It used to be the case where a mandate had to be sought out from the U.N. but now it looks like the U.N.sign of on every mission. Very convenient for a "neutral" country like ours to become immediatly involved. . . . . . .

                          Gentlemen. Firstly to to confirm the authenticity of my comments, it was reported on RTE. Look at their news website to see it. Secondly, it seems that Ireland is becoming less "non aligned" as we put small amount of specialists into situations that are not reported in the press or need to have the "triple lock" in place. Again I refer to the global Americanisation of the U.N. It seems to me that the U.N. has become the instrument of American foreign policy.Also as some might know,we have a detachment of EOD in Kabul, Afghanistan operating with and instructing Allied forces there. Some ARW are on ops there too. Can I confirm it? No, but Friends of friends etc etc. Not only that ,we are in breach of the Hague convention as we allow armed soldiers and aircraft with war cargo to transit through Shannon airport on a daily basis. Our neutrality is a joke and I'm surprised our country has not become a target of foreign terrorism. Only last week the Chairperson of Shannon airport authority said that American military movements were the very DNA of Shannon airport.To me thats very worrying that we are supporting wars and completely ignoring our neutrality and the Hague convention. Strange to think,that a country who's Defence minister is hell bent on destroying the Defence Forces,is willing to put the integritiy of the very same forces into very dubious foreign situations. . . . . .

                          I really don't care what the Mailian Army do.What I do care about is that the Defence Forces will be involved in training these people.It puts out the message that the Irish government condone murder,torture and human rights abuse.Oh sorry we already do I believe.Jim the point I'm making is that the Defence Forces could be training these people in the near future.Not something we need to be associated with. . . . . .
                          While a person is entitled to their opinion, some are saying things in Public that have no bearing on reality of the gravity of the situations faced in the real world, I love the comment about the U.N. being converted to "global Americanisation" here's hoping Russia and China toe the line.

                          Connaught Stranger.
                          Last edited by Connaught Stranger; 4 February 2013, 21:33.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
                            Lets not forget how dangerous the Leb is, we lost on average a man a trip during out commitment there previously, it is not a holiday camp on the edge of the Med!
                            My father and brother have both done leb trips, 3 in the early 80's and the other two more recent. Some of the stories from my father would fairly get rid of the holiday camp on the med notion! But unfortunately the public see lads coming home as brown as a brownie and think it is a cushy tour.

                            I suppose it all boils down to pride. Most people have pride in wearing their uniform and swearing an oath to their country. Manys the PDF/RDF/FCA person over the years were proud to do their bit. It's a pity more people in this country haven't the same traits in themselves, then some of the bitching an moaning that appear on a daily basis would ease. I guess I'm just pissed at the general nature of the Irish, you see on holidays in shops all these proud to be irish t-shirts etc. When asked, how many of them would do something to make a change/differnce. Going off my own topic I know!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
                              With regards perceptions and in this particular case misconceptions with regards the role of the Irish Defence Forces,

                              I think it sad to see these type of comments on F.B. with regards Mali and a possible Irish.D.F. Training Mission.

                              The original poster is an ex-PDF Veteran with UNIFIL Service:-



                              While a person is entitled to their opinion, some are saying things in Public that have no bearing on reality of the gravity of the situations faced in the real world, I love the comment about the U.N. being converted to "global Americanisation" here's hoping Russia and China toe the line.

                              Connaught Stranger.
                              He is someone who has a chip on his shoulder with the Americans.

                              Comment

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