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  • #16
    Originally posted by ArdMhacha View Post
    No I don't think we should copy the brits, what I was getting at is that if you have an infantryman , a signaller and an artillery gunner all sstanding beside each other in dpms they look exactly the same

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_recognition_flash

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    • #17
      Which is all fine and grand had the Glengarry's come with the red patch!


      PA peakers don't come with a red band on them either.Our SD uniforms don't come with our flashes and rank markings pre sewn on.Whats your point?
      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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      • #18
        I don't think that different coloured berets are necessary, but I do think that we should wear TRFs on our DPM uniforms to indicate corps / units. It would develop a bit of patch pride if nothing else.

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        • #19
          PA peakers don't come with a red band on them either.Our SD uniforms don't come with our flashes and rank markings pre sewn on.Whats your point?
          berets do! Even RDF berets come with the patches fitted...the Glengarry doesn't so why should one be fitted?

          If the admin instruction suggests that red patches are to be worn, they should be fitted.

          As with the private purchase items for the SD No 1s... why should you buy Lanyads , patches etc... if they are expected to be worn, should be supplied.

          The concept of items such as lanyards not being standardized has lead to some horrible interpretations of the actual item being worn, ironically the newer cavalry lanyard being a good example with the colours and brading being incorrect and look totally out of place against the actual colours.

          Now if every one decides on their own shade of red for patches.......what fun

          Many moons ago when wearing of rank sliders as opposed to brassards came to being it was suggested that the unit be featured on the slider.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • #20
            Special hats/badges don't create Unit pride/"esprit de corps", being a Good unit well led does that. A turd corps with a fancy hat is still a turd.
            Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
              Special hats/badges don't create Unit pride/"esprit de corps", being a Good unit well led does that. A turd corps with a fancy hat is still a turd.
              Spot on my friend, hey were all united with the cap badge- its time to have 4 berets, Black for all, PA, Wing and UN.. stop wanting to spend money on feckin hats when they can spend it on something needed by lads on the ground!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                Special hats/badges don't create Unit pride/"esprit de corps", being a Good unit well led does that. A turd corps with a fancy hat is still a turd.
                Having served with an army with fancy badges and hats, I'll disagree with you. There is significant pride in unit insignia and as such it's worn with pride. It's up to the unit to make that insignia count for something and to build and uphold the heritage and reputation that is associated with such insignia. TRFs generate pride, banter, esprit de corps and promotes competition between units which only acts as force betterment. If you don't think it does, it's because you probably haven't served within such an aforesaid military culture.

                Personally, I think the DF is souless without it.

                To quote Napoleon Bonaparte, "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon."
                Last edited by SwiftandSure; 21 January 2014, 17:00.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                  berets do! Even RDF berets come with the patches fitted...the Glengarry doesn't so why should one be fitted?

                  If the admin instruction suggests that red patches are to be worn, they should be fitted.

                  As with the private purchase items for the SD No 1s... why should you buy Lanyads , patches etc... if they are expected to be worn, should be supplied.

                  The concept of items such as lanyards not being standardized has lead to some horrible interpretations of the actual item being worn, ironically the newer cavalry lanyard being a good example with the colours and brading being incorrect and look totally out of place against the actual colours.

                  Now if every one decides on their own shade of red for patches.......what fun

                  Many moons ago when wearing of rank sliders as opposed to brassards came to being it was suggested that the unit be featured on the slider.
                  Even the NS beret come with that red patch, its a right pain cutting it off!!. Big square indent in your beret for weeks!!!!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
                    I don't think that different coloured berets are necessary, but I do think that we should wear TRFs on our DPM uniforms to indicate corps / units. It would develop a bit of patch pride if nothing else.
                    "Patch pride"? gimme a break More shite to put on the uniform more like.I said it before.We have a TRF.Its called the tricolour!!

                    berets do! Even RDF berets come with the patches fitted...the Glengarry doesn't so why should one be fitted?
                    Because those are the regulations.By that rationale we shouldn't put up our rank or flashes either on our SD's because they don't come fitted.

                    If the admin instruction suggests that red patches are to be worn, they should be fitted.
                    Excuses excuses.See my last point about the flashes.Lame excuse.

                    As with the private purchase items for the SD No 1s... why should you buy Lanyards , patches etc... if they are expected to be worn, should be supplied.
                    They are.All flashes have been on issue for the last few years.Lanyards for the last year or so. Standardised size too.No more titanic bow lines or pullthroughs
                    The concept of items such as lanyards not being standardized has lead to some horrible interpretations of the actual item being worn, ironically the newer cavalry lanyard being a good example with the colours and brading being incorrect and look totally out of place against the actual colours.
                    Answered above.Sorted out since last year.

                    Now if every one decides on their own shade of red for patches.......what fun
                    Never happened with the PA's or 2 Cav.They just use the army issue red felt and Bks tailor.

                    TRFs generate pride, banter, esprit de corps and promotes competition between units which only acts as force betterment.
                    TRF's promote one upmanship,bickering,punch ups down the town when other units meet each other.If that's "force betterment" you can keep it.
                    If you don't think it does, it's because you probably haven't served within such an aforesaid military culture.
                    Bollox.The USMC don't have the "Regimental system" and the nearly coined the phrase Esprit de corps.One Badge.one allegiance.One force.
                    Personally, I think the DF is souless without it.
                    Again.Bollox.The DF has it's own traditions and bells and whistles.We don't need to import another armies traditions to make us feel like soldiers.
                    To quote Napoleon Bonaparte, "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon."
                    We have those too.They are called medals.And Bonaparte was wrong.Soldiers fight for the guy beside them.Not a country/flag/piece of ribbon or even medals.
                    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      For some reason I just can't pin down I keep thinking that the Transport Corps should wear a brown beret.
                      OK Smith it’s Colonel Decker. I hate it when a plan comes together. You’re surrounded. I want you and Peck and Baracus, to throw out your weapons, all the ration packs you stole and come out with your hands up. You have fifteen seconds.

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                      • #26
                        They are.All flashes have been on issue for the last few years.Lanyards for the last year or so. Standardised size too.No more titanic bow lines or pullthroug
                        Wasn't aware of that thank you!

                        Excuses excuses.See my last point about the flashes.Lame excuse.
                        If everything has been standardized and on issue why not red patches on Glengarrys?

                        They just use the army issue red felt
                        Please show me on the scale of issue, red felt for the making of patches for Glengarrys
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                        • #27
                          The brits tradition dat eback centuries and are eschewed by the distinct class sytem that they have had being someone or others subject.

                          When the aristocracy could invent a regiment and become a colonel in chief it was a right to pick the colours etc - always a prince or duke with a penchant for colour coordination.

                          In a republic i think this is not need - the BLue Hussars were our version and you could argue that they should have been kept and on horse back too - give the equitation school a real purpose

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                          • #28
                            If everything has been standardized and on issue why not red patches on Glengarrys?
                            I dunno to give the Cav something to do now the AML's are gone


                            Please show me on the scale of issue, red felt for the making of patches for Glengarrys
                            Bks tailors have it.Along with velcro,thread,marking chalk,buttons......See where I am going with this??
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by apod View Post
                              "Patch pride"? gimme a break More shite to put on the uniform more like.I said it before.We have a TRF.Its called the tricolour!!

                              TRF's promote one upmanship,bickering,punch ups down the town when other units meet each other.If that's "force betterment" you can keep it.

                              Bollox.The USMC don't have the "Regimental system" and the nearly coined the phrase Esprit de corps.One Badge.one allegiance.One force.

                              Again.Bollox.The DF has it's own traditions and bells and whistles.We don't need to import another armies traditions to make us feel like soldiers.

                              We have those too.They are called medals.And Bonaparte was wrong.Soldiers fight for the guy beside them.Not a country/flag/piece of ribbon or even medals.
                              It's each to their own I suppose. Again I'm looking at it from both perspectives and in my own opinion and experience I feel that having unit identifers whether it's a flash, cap badge, beret, whatever does promote a deeper sense of identity and pride with that unit. Which I'd argue improves collective performance. Practically, it also makes it easy to identify what human resources you have at a glance. The flip side of that is that by not having unit identifiers it makes intelligence gathering that little more difficult when looking upon a group of DF troops.

                              The USMC does have a proud history of battles to its name which lends itself to the aggressive culture of that corps, simply being a marine carries a degree of prestige. With the greatest of respect, the DF doesn't have such a (dare I say) glorious heritage of warfare and battles won. It's not what it's about, so I wouldn't necessarily make direct comparison between the two.

                              Also, my interpretation of Napoleon's quote was that the "piece of ribbon" meant the national flag. I'm probably wrong on that.

                              I'm not saying you have to agree with me. I'm not looking to make a conversion here.

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                              • #30
                                Not much point unless you do coloured helmets!!!!!

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