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  • White Paper - When is it due to be published?

    Hi all

    I didnt see a specific thread in relaton to this so apologies if one already exists. I've seen in the past that the white paper is due to be published towards the end of this year.

    Well it's October (almost) and still no white paper. Has anyone any ideas of exactly when "Later this year" might be?

    December 24th?

  • #2
    2001 - 2010 was the last whitepaper

    were now almost halfway into the next decade and look how much has happened outside the remit of the last whitepaper...

    what really, one asks oneself, does it matter what this fantasy paper says!?

    we have a govt that cant see past the next ten years of defence and a dept of defence that cant move on with its most important publication in a decade. farcical f*king joke.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Banner View Post
      Hi all

      I didnt see a specific thread in relaton to this so apologies if one already exists. I've seen in the past that the white paper is due to be published towards the end of this year.

      Well it's October (almost) and still no white paper. Has anyone any ideas of exactly when "Later this year" might be?

      December 24th?
      The MfD two weeks ago in the Dail said: "I anticipate that an initial draft White Paper will be submitted to me for my consideration by the end of 2014. I will subsequently bring the draft to Government for their consideration and approval."
      http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...l=1#post417571

      Comment


      • #4
        Just because the DoD submit it to the MfD, doesn't mean that it will get published. Shatter held on to the VFM for ages.

        Comment


        • #5
          Right that clears it up then. If the minister is "expecting an initial draft" by the end of the year we (the public) will be lucky to see it by the middle of 2015. However as Morpheus says it doesnt really make that much of a difference. Afterall the current structure of the DF bears very little resemblemce to what was outlined in the last white paper. So they could easily publish a white paper in the morning outlining A, B, and C and then simply ignore it and go an do X, W and Z. I really sholdnt let myself get in any way animated by this. :-)

          Comment


          • #6
            The last white paper was drafted when the PIRA were still a recent threat, and 9-11 had not happened. No changes were made to it, i.e policy, during its duration. The longer we wait, the better, in my opinion.
            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
            German 2: Private? I am a general!
            German 1: That is the bad news.

            Comment


            • #7
              The DF survived for 79 years without a WP. I think we'll be ok for 5/6 years.

              There was approx 20 years of reviews, change and reorganisation that went into the last WP.

              The WP will set the strategic direction & policy of DoD and the DF. For that reason, Cabinet have to decide what the policy is first.

              Open to correction, but the major changes to the DF (eg 3 to 2 brigades) happened after the WP ran out.

              Comment


              • #8
                http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/grnPaperE

                See page 12 for the key issues it will address

                Comment


                • #9
                  Had a quick scan of those key issues it will address but didn't see anything that would indicate any change from the current status quo with the hand wringing over neutrality set to continue forever. You know it wouldnt surprise me if IS were tearing at the door and we were still talking about the triple lock.

                  MEANWHILE away from the lofty strategic issues a large number of our soldiers draw FIS and sleep in their cars in order to make ends meet. Absolutely disgraceful and the establishment should hang its head in collective shame.
                  Last edited by Pure Hover; 1 October 2014, 20:13.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    agreed but then this surfaces:
                    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...laim-1.1948560
                    now either PDFORRA was telling fibs about their being no accomodation just to get headlines, or the DF has just made empty "living in" accomodation free to all?
                    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                      agreed but then this surfaces:
                      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...laim-1.1948560
                      now either PDFORRA was telling fibs about their being no accomodation just to get headlines, or the DF has just made empty "living in" accomodation free to all?
                      PDFORRA never said there was no accommodation available, they said troops couldn't afford to travel to and from work. Living In accommodation is available but its certainly not free, the CoS didn't say it was free. It cost €2,500 a year to live in, if they cant afford the fuel home then they certainly cant afford to fork out another €2,500 a year for Living In accommodation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                        PDFORRA never said there was no accommodation available, they said troops couldn't afford to travel to and from work. Living In accommodation is available but its certainly not free, the CoS didn't say it was free. It cost €2,500 a year to live in, if they cant afford the fuel home then they certainly cant afford to fork out another €2,500 a year for Living In accommodation.
                        and i agree with ya, thats my point. what he failed to tell the journalists was that whilst accommodation is available, its not free!
                        "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                        "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          MENTIONED IN DAIL ANSWERS [25th Sept 2014]

                          Defence Forces Review

                          262. Deputy Eoghan Murphy asked the Minister for Defence when deliberations on the new white paper on Defence will commence. [36890/14]


                          Minister for Defence (Deputy Simon Coveney): The Green Paper on Defence, published in July 2013, set out a range of policy focused questions and initiated a broad public consultation process. This generated 122 written submissions from members of the public and other interested parties. As part of this consultation process, a number of people who made written submissions were invited to meet with civil and military staff of the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces. Discussions were also held with a range of other Government Departments on cross-cutting policy issues. The views of international organisations were also sought. These discussions are continuing, as required, throughout the White Paper process.


                          Working groups comprising civil and military representatives from the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces are considering likely future operational demands and the types of defence capabilities required to meet these demands. This ongoing work will underpin recommendations regarding defence provision for the next decade.


                          I anticipate that an initial draft White Paper will be submitted to me for my consideration by the end of 2014. I will subsequently bring the draft to Government for their consideration and approval.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/...-25193-en.html
                            Justice Committee to meet Reserve Defence Forces Representative Association
                            The Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality will receive an update from the Reserve Defence Forces Representative Association at its meeting tomorrow, Wednesday, 12th November 2014.

                            Committee Chairman David Stanton TD said: “The Reserve Defence Force was set up in 2005, replacing the Fórsa Cosanta Áitiúil. It has played a very important role in providing back-up to the Permanent Defence Forces. Our Committee last met with the representatives from the Reserve Defence Forces Representative Association in April last year. As the Committee with a remit in the area of defence, we are looking forward to receiving an update for the association at our meeting tomorrow. Among the issues we will be keen to discuss are: progress of the Reserve Defence Forces since its reorganisation to date; review of the Value For Money report in 2016; membership numbers of the Reserve Defence Forces; costings associated with the Reserve Defence Forces; utilisation of skills learned by Reserve Defence Forces members; training-related issues arising from current Defence Policy and the benefits of the Reserve Defence Forces to local communities, the Defence Forces as a whole, and to the individual reservist.”

                            This meeting will take place at 2.30pm on Wednesday, 12th November 2014 in Committee Room 2.

                            Committee proceedings can be followed live here.

                            Committee proceedings can also be viewed on the move, through the Houses of the Oireachtas Smartphone App, available for Apple and Android devices.

                            Media Enquiries to:

                            Ciaran Brennan,
                            Houses of the Oireachtas,
                            Communications Unit,
                            Leinster House,
                            Dublin 2

                            P: +3531 618 3903
                            M: 086-0496518
                            F: +3531 618 4551
                            Email: Ciaran.brennan@oireachtas.ie


                            Committee Membership

                            Deputies: Niall Collins (FF); Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (FG); Alan Farrell (FG); Anne Ferris (LAB) [Vice-Chairman]; Seán Kenny (LAB); Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (SF); Finian McGrath (IND); John Paul Phelan (FG); David Stanton (FG) [Chairman]

                            Senators: Ivana Bacik (LAB); Martin Conway (FG); Rónán Mullen (IND); Denis O’Donovan (FF); Katherine Zappone (IND); Tony Mulcahy (FG)
                            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              http://www.rdfra.ie/

                              RDFRA to make follow-on submission to Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality

                              On Wednesday 12 November at 2.30pm, the National Executive of the Reserve Defence Forces Representative Association (RDFRA) will make a submission to the Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality - chaired by Deputy David Stanton TD - in Leinster House. This meeting is taking place by invitation following RDFRA's last submission to the committee in April 2013, and is an interim review of the implementation of the Value For Money (VFM) report (The committee meeting can be viewed live on here).


                              The RDFRA delegation will be led by the president of the organisation - Mr Ger Kiely - and issues on the agenda include membership numbers of the Reserve Defence Forces; costings linked to the organisation; the legal standing of members and where change is required; Reserve Defence Forces training, operational roles, and how the organisation functions; the valuable role of the Naval Service Reserve; the mutually beneficial relationship that could be developed between private-sector business and the Reserve Defence Forces; and the benefits of Reserve Defence Forces membership to local communities, the individual reservist, and to the Defence Forces as a whole. RDFRA will also be providing input on the progress to date of the VFM report and the 2012 Defence Forces re-org.


                              A transcript of RDFRA's previous submission to the Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality can be found here:


                              Furthermore, it can be viewed on Youtube here:
                              Part 1: (begins at 34:00)
                              Part 2:
                              "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                              "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                              Comment

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