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Which Barracks Should Close Next? (Part 2)

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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It is the Task of Government to provide for the level of Defence it thinks it needs. This includes providing accommodation for it's Service personnel and families of married or those that cohabit. In areas where accommodation is not provided then pay must be weighted for all self renters. Building housing on military land is a sensible undertaking. Moving units must include all accommodation and school needs of those being relocated. Defence and all it's social and logistical needs has been eroded. I was born and lived in army quarters in CTC. All that has been bulldozed. The countrywide nature of military establishments requires accommodation needs to be prioritised.
    Have to say that this approach is where we need to be today. We have systematically eroded the morale of our DF by trying to make them exist as ordinary citizens of the state when they are in fact extra ordinary citizens whose families along with themselves need to be looked after. For the duration of their contract low cost accommodation should be made available to them to give them some peace of mind while serving and allow them to be able to leave the DF when their time comes with the means to look after themselves.

    The Brits have done it for years, look after the families and the soldiers will concentrate on the job. We have young single individuals try to find accommodation in areas where they cannot afford and thus can't afford some of the things the rest of us take for granted. While pay restoration to pre 2010 levels might be a nice concept to some the actual cost of rent etc is now well beyond the means of most junior enlisted people and continues to rise.

    I'm not saying that SLI go back to living in barracks but that there should be self contained accommodation built on army lands in proximity to DF bases and provided at low cost to those on the lowest rates of pay.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      DoD figures are incorrect
      . A Sgt on first increment of pay scale (post 2010) incl MSA is only on €38,582 pa
      Last edited by TangoSierra; 2 April 2018, 21:29.

      Comment


      • Possibly we need to get rid of the "overholders" in the Curragh first, sort out the legal issues and move forward.
        What is international practice with regards to housing soldiers and their families? I am familiar with the british system, but they have a long history of deploying units for long terms to overseas protectorates and colonies.
        I'd be interested the system used by a force that is not as transient in nature.
        Should the DF, rather than being landlords, be prepared to engage one of the many property management companies to provide long term appropriate , affordable, rented accomodation to officers, NCOs, Privates and if appropriate, their families too? It must be fit for purpose, secure and within short commute of the military installation where the resident serves.
        The DF would of course be prepared to subsidise the rental cost. If it was operated along the same line as social housing I would see no issue. Many DF families are already close to being eligible for social housing anyway.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post

          I'm not saying that SLI go back to living in barracks but that there should be self contained accommodation built on army lands in proximity to DF bases and provided at low cost to those on the lowest rates of pay.
          I can imagine a block of flats built in Kilbride would be of great interest to many :D

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          • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
            Possibly we need to get rid of the "overholders" in the Curragh first, sort out the legal issues and move forward.
            What is international practice with regards to housing soldiers and their families? I am familiar with the british system, but they have a long history of deploying units for long terms to overseas protectorates and colonies.
            I'd be interested the system used by a force that is not as transient in nature.
            Should the DF, rather than being landlords, be prepared to engage one of the many property management companies to provide long term appropriate , affordable, rented accomodation to officers, NCOs, Privates and if appropriate, their families too? It must be fit for purpose, secure and within short commute of the military installation where the resident serves.
            The DF would of course be prepared to subsidise the rental cost. If it was operated along the same line as social housing I would see no issue. Many DF families are already close to being eligible for social housing anyway.
            my understanding is that since the Brits outsourced their property management to a private company, that the results have not all been positive

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
              my understanding is that since the Brits outsourced their property management to a private company, that the results have not all been positive
              In the British Army, you pay according to what you ask for (or whats available)...

              The housing stock is 'banded' into types and priced accordingly...taking into account location, age of dwelling and other stuff.

              Many new houses have been built but you pay more for them.

              https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...on-Charges.pdf

              https://www.gov.uk/guidance/defence-...-accommodation

              Its subsidised housing; a soldier will pay a lot less to rent army accommodation in the south of England than he would on the civilian market.

              Where I am at the moment (reasonably remote former RAF station 1950's style houses) they don't pay a lot at all.

              So in theory you could choose to apply for cheap housing there...and commute to work up to (I believe) 50 miles away.

              Where its gone slightly wrong is with the maintenance contract (Carillion Amey)...they're not great sometimes but in fairness its not too bad.

              There is also a scheme called 'Help to Buy' whereby soldiers can borrow up to about 10k to put towards buying a house...interest free...problem being when they throw the head up and decide to sign off they have to pay the outstanding balance back.

              Affordable housing is all part of 'the offer'...the overall package that attracts people and keeps them in.
              'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

              Comment


              • Carillon Abbey’s parent company is in liquidation (it has effected the building of a number of schools here under PPP).

                A few points about DF Accomodiation:
                - how soon after a new build outside barracks before they would be forced to hand them over to civilians for social housing
                - the overholders is a mess
                - what about the person when they leave the DF, they will end up homeless

                That is not to say I’m against SLI/MLI

                Comment


                • That is where the legal end must be sorted.
                  The UKMOD has historically been good in this regard, providing homes for retired soldiers since the Crimean war.
                  Knowing that on departure from your employment you must find new accomodation is something not unusual to those working in the private sector.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • Knowing that on departure from your employment you must find new accomodation is something not unusual to those working in the private sector.
                    Absolutely but we are talking about indoctrinated people here, people that don’t generally earn enough that they will be able to afford a deposit, may not get a mortgage, will then not be used to paying market rents etc
                    Last edited by DeV; 3 April 2018, 11:18.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                      That is where the legal end must be sorted.
                      The UKMOD has historically been good in this regard, providing homes for retired soldiers since the Crimean war.
                      Knowing that on departure from your employment you must find new accomodation is something not unusual to those working in the private sector.
                      Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      Absolutely but we are talking about indoctrinated people here, people that don’t generally earn enough that they will be able to afford a deposit, may not get a mortgage, will then not be used to paying market rents etc
                      How did you manage to quote murph saying something I posted?

                      I suggest that DF housing should be an option rather than a feature of military service. OPW still provide temporary housing for members of an Garda Siochana. It is a model that has worked very well in recent years. Gives the member a decent home while they are sorting out alternative permanent accomodation. Most houses are co-located on rural garda stations.
                      Last edited by na grohmiti; 3 April 2018, 02:35.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                      Comment


                      • I am aware of a relative of a friend that was killed in Afghan as a British soldier. Not only did his family have to deal with his loss but they also had to move out of their house after 3 or 6 months.

                        Married qharters does bring other challenges that we would just fudge and end up with over holders again. We got them the first time around by people not having the moral courage to make the tough decisions

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                          How did you manage to quote murph saying something I posted?

                          I suggest that DF housing should be an option rather than a feature of military service. OPW still provide temporary housing for members of an Garda Siochana. It is a model that has worked very well in recent years. Gives the member a decent home while they are sorting out alternative permanent accomodation. Most houses are co-located on rural garda stations.
                          Defence and it's requirements has to be properly catered for with strengths and tasks at each location being met by adjacent units. Modernised forces required separation and segregation of accommodation and in most cases married quarters were adapted and cannabilised to meet immediate needs caused by new practices.Here is where the General Staff and the Minister need to face reality that the PDF is not an organisation where employees can provide or relocate accommodation without major assistance. My son when in the BA had wonderful housing, when tasked to Public Ceremonial duties, it was a 3 month task, family remained in quarters and school, and unit housed in London barracks in designed quarters for all ranks. Every other move was also to provided family quarters and schools when overseas in Germany or Cyprus.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                            How did you manage to quote murph saying something I posted?

                            I suggest that DF housing should be an option rather than a feature of military service. OPW still provide temporary housing for members of an Garda Siochana. It is a model that has worked very well in recent years. Gives the member a decent home while they are sorting out alternative permanent accomodation. Most houses are co-located on rural garda stations.
                            Good question - think I was originally going to multi quote - fixed

                            But the difference is we aren’t talking a very small number of houses in a rural town/village, we are talking possibly hundreds in (in most cases) major urban areas

                            Comment


                            • There is quite a large quantity of "garda houses", many exist in towns where there isn't even a garda station.
                              The operation for DF families could be the same.
                              In reality how many of the 9000 members of the DF would require such housing, compared to the 13000 members of AGS?
                              The other option of course is the payment of a rent allowance.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                                I am aware of a relative of a friend that was killed in Afghan as a British soldier. Not only did his family have to deal with his loss but they also had to move out of their house after 3 or 6 months.

                                Married qharters does bring other challenges that we would just fudge and end up with over holders again. We got them the first time around by people not having the moral courage to make the tough decisions
                                It would have been 93 days, 3 calendar months, or in exceptional circumstances they would have had an extension granted by the unit to which he was attached.

                                When they signed for the house they would have known that.

                                Same deal if a marriage breaks up etc etc.

                                What you haven't mentioned in the case of the serviceman killed in Afghanistan is the financial and welfare support they would have received in the aftermath of their loved ones death. The British Army is huge on welfare; indeed the British public are huge on service welfare provision by supporting the plethora of charities which exist to help people at a time like that which you have just described.

                                Again part of 'the offer'...a soldier goes to war knowing that if the worst happens his loved ones will be taken care of.

                                Realising that the situation in Ireland is slightly different (not the same amount of moving around of families) I'd go with NG's rent allowance suggestion...it would either pay the rent or make a big dent in a mortgage. Allow the soldier to invest in a home whilst he invests his time and service in a career that pays for his family to enjoy a decent standard of living.
                                'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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