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Which Barracks Should Close Next? (Part 2)

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  • #31
    We've got to be the only military in the developed world that has to sell off barracks to buy equipment. Most of our buildings were built by the brits and the DF specialise in letting them fall into ruin!

    What is Tralee actually used for? Brickins could be sold for a good bit of money, there's a few RDF barracks down the country that'll be sold when they get around to binning units not located in PDF barracks. Other than these few closing any other location will required binning a battalion or two as there's no chance we'll build a new barracks to replace the closed one. However the only barracks that are actually worth money are in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway...
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.


    • #32
      Case 2 - St Bricins

      Current Site Size = 6.56 acres

      Sale Price

      Neighbouring site on Infirmary Road = 2.75 acres (14/2.75 = €5.09 Million per Acre)

      St Bricins potential sale price = 6.56 acres x €5.09 Million = €33.4 Million

      In total, 584 homes are planned for O’Devaney Gardens, 101 of which will be houses, with apartments in blocks of four to five storeys. Another 30 social homes will be located on a neighbouring site on Infirmary Road. The council has put an indicative value of €14 million on the site and is proposing to offer all or parts of the land for sale by public tender, with conditions relating to tenure mix and future use.

      Defence Forces Properties


      356. Deputy Shane Ross Information on Shane P.N. Ross Zoom on Shane P.N. Ross asked the Minister for Defence Information on Simon Coveney Zoom on Simon Coveney his plans to close Saint Bricin's Military Hospital in Dublin 7; if so, the timeframe for the closure; in the event of closure, if the Government is committed to building a purpose-built military hospital in another location; if it is not to close, if the Government will ensure that it is included in the upcoming legislation from the Department of Health covering local hospital groups, thus ensuring that the clinical governance and services available there meet agreed national best practice; if he will commit to ensuring that adequate investment in the hospital is made to bring it up to acceptable national standards; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35954/15]

      Minister for Defence (Deputy Simon Coveney): Information on Simon Coveney Zoom on Simon Coveney St. Bricin's is not a military hospital and does not provide the types of services which would be provided in hospitals run for example by the HSE. Also, it does not provide any services to the general public.

      St. Bricin's operates as a military medical facility providing General Practitioner and some outpatient services to members of the Defence Forces. It also has a very small lying-in capacity that can provide limited nursing services for patients. For reasons of economy and efficiency, the majority of secondary health care for members of the Defence Forces is provided through the public and private health system.

      A decision was taken to close the St. Bricin’s military medical facility as part of the decentralisation programme. That decision included a provision that St. Bricin's would remain in operation as a military medical facility pending the provision of suitable alternative facilities. To date it has not proved possible to advance that project given available resources and the Defence Forces priorities in relation to infrastructure investment.

      In relation to governance and standards, the Director of the Defence Forces' Medical Branch has responsibility for clinical governance and ensuring that medical services/treatment provided to Defence Forces personnel meet best practice and required standards. In addition, as St. Bricin's is not a hospital and there are no plans to upgrade its status or to provide for a hospital facility within the Defence Forces, the question of it being included in Department of Health legislation covering hospital groups does not arise.

      The closure of four more barracks — Monaghan, Lifford, Longford and Letterkenny — as well as St Bricin’s Hospital in Dublin was announced in 2009, involving the relocation of 595 personnel.


      • #33
        Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
        We've got to be the only military in the developed world that has to sell off barracks to buy equipment. .
        au contraire mon frere...

        A total of 13 Ministry of Defence sites will be sold to provide land for up to 17,017 homes and will raise £225m, the government has said.
        Defence minister Mark Lancaster said 12,565 of the homes were "expected to materialise in this Parliament".

        The New Zealand Defence Force has made nearly $150 million over the past five years through its defence housing disposal programme.$150m

        The Pentagon is threatening to start closing down unneeded military bases unilaterally if Congress continues to refuse to launch a new Base Closure and Realignment Commission.


        • #34
          NZ are competing with us in a who can spend the least on their DF contest. £225M is a pretty small number in the MOD budget compared to their equipment projects and ditto the USA
          Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.


          • #35
            Protected Structures on Military Property - Demolishing


            Department of Defence
            Defence Forces Properties

            All Written Answers on 25 Mar 2014
            Next answer »

            Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
            Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
            135. To ask the Minister for Defence in view of the fact that the surveying, listing and ongoing monitoring of protected buildings in the Defence property portfolio falls within the remit of the local authority, the number of meetings and level of engagement that took place between the Defence Forces property section and Kildare County Council in relation to these matters over the past five years. [12969/14]

            Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
            Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
            137. To ask the Minister for Defence the number of conservation architects and building surveyors employed by the Defence Forces property section; the person responsible for deciding when a building should be demolished; and the expertise that is relied on to support that decision, particularly in relation to protected buildings. [12933/14]

            Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
            Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
            I propose to take Questions Nos. 135 and 137 together.
            A small number of military buildings are included on the Record of Protected Structures of Kildare County Council. As there have been no plans to carry out material alterations to any of these protected structures my Department has not had the requirement to meet with the local authority in relation to these buildings within the last five years. I can confirm that as part of the ongoing process of managing the Defence property portfolio my Department monitors the Record of Protected Structures on an ongoing basis.
            At present Conservation Architects are employed by my Department in relation to two projects, namely the restoration of the North Accommodation Block in McKee Barracks which is a protected structure, and the construction of a Military Archives Facility in Cathal Brugha Barracks. In most instances where external design teams are employed by my Department, the teams consists of an Architect (conservation qualified as necessary), a Structural Engineer, a Services Engineer and a Quantity Surveyor.
            When it is proposed to demolish a building in a Defence Forces installation an application is submitted to my Department by the military authorities – each application is considered on its merits following consultation between officials in my Department and the Defence Forces Corps of Engineers before a final decision is made. To date no protected structures have been demolished by my Department or the Defence Forces.


            • #36
              Consolidation of Warehousing and Storage


              3.56 As noted above there are 100+ separate stores countrywide, although some of them
              may carry minimal inventory in storage. It is understood that this represents a major
              rationalisation in historic terms. Nevertheless the scope for further rationalisation is worthy of
              examination. A review of the latter must balance what is most efficient in terms of storing
              inventory with the diverse day to day and strategic needs of the Defence Forces in all locations.
              The Chair and Secretary were briefed by the Health Service Executive (HSE) on a major
              consolidation of stores project that the Executive has on hands. This involves the consolidation
              of the current stores infrastructure (70+ stores) to a National distribution centre
              supplying nine
              transhipment hubs. An estimated full year efficiency saving of €9m is envisaged.


              • #37
                Schedule of Land and Buildings - Vested in Minister for Defence


                Schedule of Land and Buildings

                1. Vested in the Minister for Defence

                Property Area (Hectares)1
                Knockalisheen Camp 53.17
                Murphy Barracks, Ballincollig 0.89
                Collins Barracks, Cork 24.20
                Portion of Camp Field, Collins Barracks —
                Old Barracks & Graveyard, Fermoy 4.45
                Fitzgerald Camp, Fermoy 0.401
                RDF Premises, Kilcrohane 0.405
                Michael Collins Memorial Plot, Beál na Bláth 0.0040
                RDF Premises, Skibbereen 0.20
                RDF Premises, Mallow 0.028
                RDF Premises, Youghal 0.045
                Part of old Military Barracks, Buttevant —
                Casement Aerodrome, Baldonnel including
                sewage farm & land adjacent
                Esplanade, Collins Barracks 0.20
                Site at Islandbridge, Dublin 8. 0.405
                Oranmore Rifle Range 216.10
                Springfield Water Supply to Oranmore Range —
                Dún Uí Mhaoilíosa, Galway 29.95
                Ballymullen Barracks, Tralee 6.07
                Fort Shannon, Tarbert 0.81
                RDF Premises, Kilorglin 0.10
                Curragh Camp and Lands 1,970.82
                Curragh Lands – Kildare By-Pass —
                Houses at Orchard Park (2,23,78,85,96), Curragh —
                Magee Barracks, Kildare 22.79
                Lands at Blackrath, Curragh. 14.37
                Stephens’ Barracks, Kilkenny 5.67
                Red Barns Rifle Range, Dundalk 5.46
                Gormanston Camp and Aerodrome 105.62
                RDF Premises, Navan 0.20
                Former Military Barracks, Birr 1.98
                1 Hectarages stated are approximate. Most of the properties contain buildings thereon.
                24 Vote 36 Defence
                Rifle Range, Carna 114.53
                Rifle Range, Kilcoran 5.46
                Barnane Rifle Range, Templemore —
                Military Barracks, Waterford 0.32
                Columb Barracks, Mullingar 9.61
                Custume Barracks, Athlone 5.26
                Garrynafela Lands, Athlone 5.97
                Glen of Imaal Artillery Range 2,698.85
                Coolmooney Camp and Lands 97.53
                Rockbrae House and Lands, Bray 1.95
                Range Warden’s Post, Seskin 0.405


                • #38
                  Schedule of Land - Vested in the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform

                  Schedule of Land and Buildings

                  2. Vested in the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform

                  Property Area
                  RDF Premises, Ennis 0.10
                  Kilworth Camp and Range 1,377.55
                  Portion at Kilworth Camp for provision of road services to
                  Bere Island 91.05
                  Naval Base, Haulbowline2
                  Fort Davis, Whitegate 29.95
                  Fort Templebreedy, Crosshaven 14.97
                  Furious Pier, Castletownbere —
                  Landing Pier, Cobh —
                  Finner Camp, Bundoran 339.94
                  Cathal Brugha Barracks, Rathmines 18.62
                  Cathal Brugha Barracks No 17 – 28 Quarters —
                  McKee Barracks, Blackhorse Avenue 18.21
                  McKee Park, No 64 —
                  Hectarages stated are approximate. Most of the properties contain buildings thereon.
                  Temporarily transferred to the Department of Agriculture, Food & the Marine for remedial work on the
                  ISPAT site.
                  25 Appropriation**Account 2015
                  St. Bricin’s Hospital, D7. 3.24
                  Old School House, Arbour Hill —
                  2 Tomar Court, Arbour Hill —
                  RDF Premises, Portlaoise 0.03
                  Sarsfield Barracks, Limerick 5.99
                  Connolly Barracks, Longford 4.35
                  Aiken Barracks, Dundalk 7.28
                  Military Barracks, Castlebar 2.43
                  Rifle Range, Cushla 56.25
                  Military Barracks, Boyle 0.20
                  Military Barracks, Nenagh 1.09
                  Part of McCann Bks., Templemore 0.16
                  Military Barracks, Wexford 0.405
                  Kilbride Camp and Rifle Range 636.98


                  • #39
                    TangoSierra, I'm not saying it can't be done or that it shouldn't be.

                    But we also have to be realistic.

                    As B20 says not recruiting people is what is paying for the OPVs. Well guess what once we have paid for the OPVs, there is a MRV, 2 CPVs, APCs, CASA replacements, ISTAR a/c, etc to buy.

                    Like the idea of the phased sale, it would be a lot more manageable but there would be issues for both sides eg services (water, esb), planning, etc etc.

                    In the case of CBB, you could sell say the Tpt Yard, 2 Cav lines and the Church in 1 lot, then say the gym and I think 2 CIS as another, then Bde HQ and COMCEN, then the area where the prefabs used to be and so on.

                    Equally then in the Curragh, knock all around McDermott Square and build 1 large U shaped block (or several larger deeper blocks), then Clarke, etc etc.

                    But that is ok for empty building but what about those which are occupied.

                    We aren't talking a 5-10 year plan it would be much slower.

                    Bricins is a prime candidate for sale. My big fear would be how much land will the Dept of Housing/DCC take for free.

                    In relation to there being some many stores, depends what way they are counting them. Is each building with a stores in it a stores or is each separate locked door in the armoury a stores ?


                    • #40
                      Have any barracks that were sold off actually been developed? Mullingar and Longford are lying idle aren't they? From all the parliamentary questions it seems tds want them turned into free halls for local groups to use as they wish.
                      Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.


                      • #41
                        Guys. Where are you going with this ?
                        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"


                        • #42
                          Accommodation along the lines of this


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                            If a detailed study and proposal can be put forward that is backed by fact and figures, it will make it harder for the political resistance to justify their self-centered vote protectionism.

                            "Plans are nothing, Planning is everything"
                            A bit deluded but I love your optimism


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                              Have any barracks that were sold off actually been developed? Mullingar and Longford are lying idle aren't they? From all the parliamentary questions it seems tds want them turned into free halls for local groups to use as they wish.
                              Ballincollig-Clancy come to mind. Since MQ's have been done away is there any need for 3 schools in DFTC?


                              • #45
                                Bricins has been used for emergency housing 25 homeless people for around 3 years