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Which Barracks Should Close Next? (Part 2)

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  • Which Barracks Should Close Next? (Part 2)

    Original Thread here

    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...uld-Close-Next

    "There is a need to close barracks. many of the barracks currenlty occupied exist NOT for operational reasons but for historical and/or outmoded territorial occupation reasons. The cost of upkeep has reached unacceptable levels and will only increase over time.

    This issue requires in-depth study in its own right.

    (The Study) will need to be aligned with the re-organisation proposals and man power plan. Each facility will have to be looked at in terms of necessity in the new structures, its manning levels, its market value and the potential to redeploy the personnel involved elsewhere which will also mean looking at redeployment costs in the receiving facility.

    The study needs to be undertaken as a matter of urgency and any further significant investment in the current infrastructure should await the outcome of that study.

    Review of the DF - PWC Report - July 1994
    Building on recent re-organisation measures for the Permanent Defence Force (PDF) and the Reserve Defence Force (RDF), to guide and underpin decisions relating to the capacity of the Defence Organisation to include: corporate skills, organisation, force composition and equipment acquisition over the next ten years;

    6.7 Development and Maintenance of Infrastructure
    In the context of maintaining and developing military capability, the term infrastructure refers to all buildings and permanent installations including, but not limited to barracks, the airfield, naval base, training lands, medical facilities, stores, ranges, maintenance workshops, etc., necessary for the support of the Defence Forces.

    There is a requirement to carry out major building refurbishment in a number of areas including Haulbowline, Casement Aerodrome, McKee Barracks and the Curragh Camp. The cost of this programme of essential capital projects cannot be met from existing funding.

    there is a need to develop within the Department of Defence, a coordinated infrastructure development plan. This development plan will reflect on a priority needs basis, an approach for all infrastructure development requirements for the life time of this White Paper. The first step in the completion of such a plan will be an assessment of the main barracks and facilities across a number of criteria

    White Paper on Defence - 2015



    Given that many of the Barracks listed in the original thread's poll are now closed. I'd like to start a new poll (to include ALL DF Property) to reflect the statements from the White Paper 2015 and the PWC report which stated the same over 20 years prior.

    As well as the poll, I'd like this thread to become an outline version of the study the PWC Report and the White paper calls for.
    121
    McKee Bks - Dublin
    4.13%
    5
    Cathal Brugha Bks - Dublin
    6.61%
    8
    St Bricins Hospital - Dublin
    26.45%
    32
    Casement Aerodrome - Dublin
    3.31%
    4
    Aiken Bks - Dundalk, Louth
    0.00%
    0
    Gormanston Aerodrome - Meath
    6.61%
    8
    Custume Bks - Athlone, Westmeath
    3.31%
    4
    Dún Uí Mhaoilíosa - Galway
    2.48%
    3
    Finner Camp - Donegal
    0.83%
    1
    Ballymullen Bks - Tralee
    22.31%
    27
    Stephens Bks - Kilkenny
    14.05%
    17
    Curragh Camp - Kildare
    0.00%
    0
    Collins Bks - Cork
    3.31%
    4
    Haulbowline - Cork
    3.31%
    4
    Sarsfield Bks - Limerick
    3.31%
    4

  • #2
    The current total list of Defence Forces Properties can be found here:

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/...orces+property

    Tuesday, 29 November 2016

    Department of Defence - Defence Forces Properties

    Written Answers on 29 Nov 2016


    John Deasy (Waterford, Fine Gael)
    802. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number of premises owned and or managed by his Department in each county; and the number of these currently unoccupied. [37423/16]

    Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
    The information requested by the Deputy is set out in the following table:
    Premises Occupied Unoccupied

    Knockalisheen Partly Occupied
    RDF Premises Ennis Yes

    Kilworth Camp Yes
    Bere Island Yes
    Naval Base, Haulbowline Yes
    Fort Davis, Whitegate Yes
    Fort Templebreedy, Crosshaven Yes
    Collins Barracks Cork Yes
    Showgrounds Fermoy Yes
    RDF Kilcrohane Yes
    RDF Skibereen Yes
    RDF Mallow Yes
    Finner Camp Yes

    Cathal Brugha Barracks, Rathmines Yes
    Cathal Brugha Barracks , Former Married Quarters – 12 units 9 occupied 3 unoccupied
    McKee Barracks, Blackhorse Avenue Yes
    No 64 McKee Park , Blackhorse Avenue Yes
    St. Bricin's Hospital, Dublin 7 Yes
    Old School House, Arbour Hill Yes
    2 Tomar Court, Arbour Hill Yes
    Casement Aerodrome , Baldonnel Yes
    Esplanade Collins Barracks Yes

    Oranmore Rifle Range Yes
    Dún Uí Mhaoilíosa Yes

    Ballymullen Barracks Tralee Yes
    Fort Shannon, Tarbert Yes
    RDF Premises Kilorglin Yes

    Curragh Camp yes
    2 Orchard Park Yes
    23 Orchard P ark Yes
    78 Orchard Park Yes
    85 Orchard P ark yes
    96 Orchard P ark yes

    Stephen's Barracks Kilkenny Yes

    RDF Portlaoise Yes

    Connolly Barracks, Longford Yes

    Aiken Barracks, Dundalk Yes
    Red Barn Rifle Range, Dundalk Yes

    Military Barracks Castlebar Yes

    Gormanston Camp and Aerodrome yes
    RDF Navan yes


    Military Barracks, Boyle Yes


    Military Barracks Nenagh yes
    Park of McCann Barracks, Templemore yes

    Military Barracks Waterford yes

    Columb Barracks, Mullingar Partly occuppied
    Custume Barracks, Athlone Yes

    Military Barracks Wexford yes

    Kilbride Camp and Rifle Range Yes
    Coolmoney Camp Yes
    Rockbrae House Bray Yes
    Range Warden's Post, Seskin Yes
    Last edited by TangoSierra; 4 December 2016, 15:01.

    Comment


    • #3
      One glaring omission
      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by apod View Post
        One glaring omission
        Untouchable
        German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
        German 2: Private? I am a general!
        German 1: That is the bad news.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by apod View Post
          One glaring omission
          Ah yes, Sarsfield Barracks. How could I forget Willies home town!? Any MODs able to edit the poll please?

          Interestingly enough it's omitted in Paul Keogh's answer too
          Last edited by TangoSierra; 4 December 2016, 19:28.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
            Ah yes, Sarsfield Barracks. How could I forget Willies home town!? Any MODs able to edit the poll please?

            Interestingly enough it's omitted in Paul Keogh's answer too
            As requested

            Comment


            • #7
              St Brickins is an early poll leader. Given that the adjacent social housing blocks are being demolished and the site marked for housing development, would this be the ideal time to sell the site in order to gain maximum return?

              Comment


              • #8
                The other poll leader is Stephens Barracks, Kilkenny. Given that it is adjacent to Paul Keogh's backyard and is probably one of the major employers in the town how would you make the case for closure of the barracks?

                Would the state get anything for the sale of the site?

                Comment


                • #9
                  There's **** all jobs in kk, if you close the barracks the place will be a ghost town. Who'd buy the houses they build on the site?
                  Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The simple facts are that Bricins and Ballymullen are isolated posts with no significant military significance anymore. Bricins as a "hospital" is a mis-nomer in any sense.

                    Moving units from Ballymullen to Galway, Limerick or Cork would make sense, similarly Bricins moving to Curragh.

                    Stephens could move to Curragh with minimal disruption to units and re-unite the battalion also.
                    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

                    And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
                      Stephens could move to Curragh with minimal disruption to units and re-unite the battalion also.
                      The PDF elements of 3 Inf Bn is currently centralised in Kilkenny

                      B Coy 3 Inf Bn that was in the DFTC (ie the APC Coy) is now 1 Mech Inf Coy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                        There's **** all jobs in kk, if you close the barracks the place will be a ghost town. Who'd buy the houses they build on the site?
                        Is the mission of the Defence Forces to sustain jobs in kilkenny? What operational need is there for the DF in Kilkenny?

                        Stephens Barracks to the Curragh camp is under 80km or approx 1hr.

                        Curragh Camp to Rosslare Harbour is under 135km or just over 1.5hrs.

                        Even if the Defence Forces could not sell the site, it would still save significant sums in bit money and man years associated with facility services and maintenance

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
                          Stephens could move to Curragh with minimal disruption to units and re-unite the battalion also.
                          You'd face some protest from the folks already commuting to Kilkenny from Clonmel after the barracks closed there. B Coy still exists, it was reunited with the rest of the Battalion when 1 Mech Coy was re designated in the last re org!!
                          What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                            You'd face some protest from the folks already commuting to Kilkenny from Clonmel after the barracks closed there. B Coy still exists, it was reunited with the rest of the Battalion when 1 Mech Coy was re designated in the last re org!!
                            There are people commuting all over the place.

                            I know of a someone living in Cork and based in the DFTC

                            The thing is that the next batch of closures has to be the last (to allow people get stability)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As I see it currently the only real options for further closures of PDF locations are Bricins and Stephens.

                              Comment

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