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Which Barracks Should Close Next? (Part 2)

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  • WhingeNot
    replied
    On a similar note to above, there is an article in today’s (Monday) Irish Independent – plans for a 3rd level campus at former Kickham Barracks, Clonmel with plans including for conversion of buildings, and new-builds. Grangegorman in Dublin would be a similar campus-style redevelopment carried out.

    €94m plan to redevelop Tipperary army barracks as student campus takes a step forward | Independent.ie

    Related to that, you could suspect that any new-build army camp/ base… may for financial reasons, fall more to the side of appearing like an open prison, than to the side of a university campus – but that may be just far too cynical?!

    As for shooting ranges in urban areas/ barracks, is there an example anywhere in the world of a ‘cut & cover’ underground car park under a barrack square, or under an open space - that doubles as a shooting range?

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  • WhingeNot
    replied
    Just to lob in another item… if some parties were adamant to development some, or all of Cathal Brugha Barracks for social and affordable housing, and/ or other residential types/tenures – could it be done as a Part 9 (PROVISION WITH RESPECT TO CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT BY OR ON BEHALF OF STATE AUTHORITIES),or partnership under Part 8 (REQUIREMENTS IN RESPECT OF SPECIFIED DEVELOPENT BY, ON BEHALF OF, OR IN PARTNERSHIP WITH LOCAL AUTHORITIES) of the Planning and Development Regulations, 2001 under the 2000 Planning Act, by the Dept. of Defence.. and Dept. of Justice, for rental only/ and ‘build to rent’ residential units for members of the Defence Forces, and Gardai, and their families who are on Local Authority housing lists/ need to rent?

    New courts buildings development for example, would be carried out under the Part 9 process by the Department of Justice.

    You might be even able to add other ‘State Authorities’ into above residential development e.g. for Dept. of Health staff (similar maybe to old nurses accommodation blocks in hospitals) – in this way the Dept. of Defence could still control and use the site, to a lesser or greater extent. Similar to the LDA (Land Development Agency) taking over state lands for housing.

    Problems? – any rules against cross-subsidy between government depts.? For social/ rental family units - what happens if the qualifying family member leaves state employment (notwithstanding any potential exers' rental OAP units), and potential accusations of favouritism to state/ frontline workers…?

    Leave a comment:


  • WhingeNot
    replied
    I’m going to stick my head above the parapet on this one again (!) - but it could be partly argued that one of the biggest defence attributes that the Defence Forces of this country actually has, is the fact that it has the presence of a large number of soldiers right on the edge of the city centre, of the capital city…

    (and again noting that the police force (Gardai) of country is not routinely armed).

    I’ll also throw in there, that the Defence Forces does not have a lot of helicopters to transport troops at will, and rapidly, around the country or say - into the capital in an emergency/ disaster… Whereas it could also be said, without being too flippant - that with Cathal Brugha Barracks all the troops would have to do to deploy rapidly into the capital city – would be to open the barracks gates and run out.

    Think for example, of the number of soldiers that appeared to be on the streets in Paris and Brussels after particular attacks in recent years (and that even, with their Police who are routinely armed…plus their armed Gendarmes). Flooding issues response is probably a less dramatic example, though important enough for residents/ business owners involved.

    This also noting that the population would care less what type of day-to-day unit the soldiers are actually with, if they saw them on the streets in response to some disaster.


    Otherwise, I note previous discussions on IMO of a desire for a large greenfield base/ bases for greater military type training opportunities - versus keeping smaller garrison/ colonial occupation/ historic style barracks dispersed around the country.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTU
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post

    300+ metre ones?

    not forgetting fumes
    Most Indoor police firearms ranges in the UK range* from 50m - 100m, with the newer ones looking like glorified warehouses on industrial estates, see below for Cheshire Police Tactical Training Centre which has a 100m range and a indoor tactical training area.



    As for Fumes, that's what modern HVAC systems are for

    *pun not intended

    Leave a comment:


  • trellheim
    replied
    McKee 25 yrd range did not close till the late 90s at least, I fired sub cal on it back then. As someone says though, you need 325-350 M at least, and at least 10-12 targets wide to make it any use at all , plus the safety template and NDA which largely rules it out of the Dublin metro area , MAYBE something up near Dundalk on the marshes but thats too far.

    Ballykinler camp up NI is a perfect example of the size and scale might me needed - have a look on Google maps

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by ODIN View Post
    Plenty examples of indoor rifle ranges around the world, many civilian ones in the US. Proper building materials will dampen sound.
    300+ metre ones?

    not forgetting fumes

    Leave a comment:


  • Jaque'ammer
    replied
    Originally posted by ODIN View Post
    Plenty examples of indoor rifle ranges around the world, many civilian ones in the US. Proper building materials will dampen sound.
    FFS, the IRA built plenty of underground ranges with stuff nicked from building sites

    Leave a comment:


  • ODIN
    replied
    Plenty examples of indoor rifle ranges around the world, many civilian ones in the US. Proper building materials will dampen sound.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rhodes
    replied
    There is already a 25m firing range in Baldonnel. As well as ones inside the barracks walls of Finner, Gormo, Renmore and Haulbowline.
    Noise danger areas are the limiting factor in having one in areas with other people about.

    Leave a comment:


  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Originally posted by B Inman View Post
    As a recruit in the FCA my first time to use a firearm was in 1970 on an indoor range in Griffith Barracks. It was a Lee Enfield modified to fire .22

    Later in the 70's while serving in the PDF I fired the BAP on a range in McKee Barracks. This range closed in the 80's.

    Ranges within Barracks existed in the past ,
    it could happen again if the need existed and they were built to comply with modern Health and Safety standards.

    There are numerous modern H&S friendly ranges being built around the country. The first one I saw was in 1992 in the then renovated Garda College, Templemore. (I believe it's gone since). The Naval Base has one for at least a decade now, within literal earshot of the Flag Officers office, and it causes no issues, (except when the wind blows a certain way, and the Natives in Cobh Hear it, and complain).
    You still need open spaces for the full rifle & gpmg table though, These cannot be done with miniature or pistol ranges.

    Leave a comment:


  • B Inman
    replied
    As a recruit in the FCA my first time to use a firearm was in 1970 on an indoor range in Griffith Barracks. It was a Lee Enfield modified to fire .22

    Later in the 70's while serving in the PDF I fired the BAP on a range in McKee Barracks. This range closed in the 80's.

    Ranges within Barracks existed in the past ,
    it could happen again if the need existed and they were built to comply with modern Health and Safety standards.


    Leave a comment:


  • ODIN
    replied
    Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

    No shortage of USAF airfields with onsite ranges. A safe, semi-enclosed range is not hard to do, especially for pistols and sub-machine guns.
    Considering many barracks in the country at one time had ranges within the walls, it shouldn't be a massive issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • GoneToTheCanner
    replied
    Originally posted by trellheim View Post
    not in the don you'd never get a safety template
    No shortage of USAF airfields with onsite ranges. A safe, semi-enclosed range is not hard to do, especially for pistols and sub-machine guns.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    Won’t be getting land at the Mint anyway

    Leave a comment:


  • spider
    replied
    If its just for zeroing weapons a pipe range would suffice, or for training proper an underground range such as the PSNI facility at Garnerville. When I trained there (30 odd years ago) we live fired H&K MP5's on those ranges.

    Leave a comment:

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