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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
    ATCP or ATCA? Not always a Garda vehicle present.

    Call it what you like anyway there is a very small specific section of tarmac, fenced and with bi-directional flood lights on which the DF/Gardai provide security. Some gobshites managed to paint slogans on foreign military aircraft on this small section of tarmac right under their noses. Nobody comes out of this smelling of roses.
    ATCA is completely different.

    There doesn't have to be a Garda vehicle present to have a Garda there but there does need to be one there

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    • #17
      A couple of points.

      My observations are not from reading a newspaper.

      The protester with previous military experience is 70 years old.

      Tall grass at an airport is standard practice as a bird control technique.

      The aircraft were parked nose to tail. Not really "a good distance". As close together as two 737's would normally be in such a parking configuration. Probably 100m from nose of aircraft A to tail aircraft B.

      Well done on the apprehension to those involved. However from the fence in there are failings for all agencies involved and it really needs to stop at this point. If the airport is seen as an easy target by tree huggers there are much more determined fanatics out there who could do real harm.
      Last edited by Jetjock; 28 April 2017, 11:37.

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      • #18
        JJ have you done security duty out at the airport.Yes or no?
        Yes: I will accept your criticism.
        No: then you don't know what you are talking about and are being a hurler on the ditch.

        There were faults and failings.NONE.I say again, NONE of which are the DF's.
        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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        • #19
          Hi Apod, I am definitely in category B and don't envy those in category A who have to endure months of boredom before the next gobshite arrives. However I am more than familiar with the location.

          If it's your opinion that there is not even a minor DF slip up when two protesters manage to gain access to parked foreign military aircraft under their noses in a secure location, I will happily bow to your first hand experience.

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          • #20
            As I said JJ, the DF are not there to protect the aircraft, the airport or anything else.

            That is not their role or job

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
              Hi Apod, I am definitely in category B and don't envy those in category A who have to endure months of boredom before the next gobshite arrives. However I am more than familiar with the location.

              If it's your opinion that there is not even a minor DF slip up when two protesters manage to gain access to parked foreign military aircraft under their noses in a secure location, I will happily bow to your first hand experience.
              The only possible slip up is manning levels.Which is function of management.More bodies deployed would mean more "eyes on" at any one time.However as I said before the job of watching the aircraft is the Gardai's. The slip up is theirs.
              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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              • #22
                From my own viewpoint, the failing lies with APO, and to a certain extent the DAA. The fenceline should be impregnable to everythng but the smallest rodent. That is international practice. If you start walking airside on any international airport then the security status of the airport wil be downgraded and airlines will pull out, sharpish. There was an incursion some years ago in ORK, which became infamous with the attempts to stop the trespasser gaining many hits on youtube etc. Cork Airport APO and management learnt from it, and improved the fencing to the extent you can literally not get a tank airside any more without breaking down a gate. People loitering at the fence at any part of the field quickly get a visit from one of the many APO vehicles patrolling the perimeter. It has made the airport a no-go zone for aircraft spotters, which is a small price to pay for airfield security.
                This incident is only a few short months since pink shirt builder TD and his concubine climbed the fence on the northern side and made their way to security personell on the field in SNN. Ths should have been a major wake up call for the DAA that the current security was insufficient for the threat of incursion.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by apod View Post
                  The only possible slip up is manning levels.Which is function of management.More bodies deployed would mean more "eyes on" at any one time.However as I said before the job of watching the aircraft is the Gardai's. The slip up is theirs.
                  Couldn't agree more with the first part and happy to take your word on the latter without knowing the finer details.

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                  • #24
                    Grabbing a 71 yo cant have been a big gig.
                    Last edited by danno; 29 April 2017, 11:23. Reason: accuracy

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by danno View Post
                      Grabbing a 70yo cant have been a big gig.
                      The key thing would be as apod said doing so with the minimum of force, otherwise he would be a maryter, and lieut Gruber would be only too happy to pontificate about beibg tortured at lenght.
                      Last edited by paul g; 29 April 2017, 08:25.

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                      • #26
                        This is the current upshot;

                        http://clareherald.com/2017/04/two-d...-breach-71724/

                        I think one of them does letters regularly in the press re the DF etc. Leaving the rights and wrongs of what happened to one side as the as the matter is before the courts I reckon indulging in a blame game is missing the point entirely as the alleged incursionists carried off their "mission" successfully and the defences were found wanting and seemed to be easily penetrated. I hope nobody tries to make a virtue of the subsequent detention of the alleged intruders to gloss over the collective security failure.

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                        • #27
                          And there will no doubt be a diplomatic note

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                          • #28
                            Funny how none of the protesters want to damage/search the sizeable number of Russian aircraft that pass through...
                            'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                            'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                            Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                            He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                            http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by danno View Post
                              This is the current upshot;

                              http://clareherald.com/2017/04/two-d...-breach-71724/

                              I think one of them does letters regularly in the press re the DF etc. Leaving the rights and wrongs of what happened to one side as the as the matter is before the courts I reckon indulging in a blame game is missing the point entirely as the alleged incursionists carried off their "mission" successfully and the defences were found wanting and seemed to be easily penetrated. I hope nobody tries to make a virtue of the subsequent detention of the alleged intruders to gloss over the collective security failure.
                              His own military career was surprisingly controversial, and makes his current behaviour all the more hypocritical. He handed back his medals. Not so sure if he handed back his pension. 1st Armoured Cav remain ashamed to have had him as a CO.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by danno View Post
                                Grabbing a 71 yo cant have been a big gig.
                                He wasn't the one who tried it on.His buddy on the other hand.....(After two verbal warnings.Now he knows the DF are NOT the Gardai)
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                                Comment

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