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  • #61
    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

    Any information as to what the €23m had been allocated for?
    I haven't seen a breakdown for subheads but Id say the vast majority is from pay and allowances.

    I should also add that another €6 million was taken away in receipts. Money mostly from the UN for peacekeeping and also from sales of surplus equipment. If the accounting officer at the DoD estimates that the UN will reimburse the Army €5 million but in fact they receive €9 million then that addition €4 million must be surrendered. The estimates are almost always deliberately low given a nice earner for the exchequer and a financial loss for the Army.

    Comment


    • #62
      Budget 2023 kite flying.

      ....While the Government has committed to increasing the defence budget from €1.1bn to €1.5bn by 2028, a source said that this year’s budget was unlikely to see a major beginning of that increase.

      It is understood that there are “structural issues” around the recruitment of members of the forces which need to be addressed before any major recruitment can be undertaken.

      A competition was recently opened to find both a head of transformation and head of strategic HR for the Defence Forces as part of the overhaul of the Defence Forces human resources strategy.

      It is expected that there will be an increase in investment from next year, ramping up to the €1.5bn in today’s prices envisaged by 2028.....
      https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40941620.html

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      • #63
        And so it begins..

        Comment


        • #64
          We knew this though, didn't we? June was far too late to get into the 2023 budget. The implementation group won't be reporting their findings till December at the earliest, and some of the appointments to me filled in the oversight body have yet to be filled.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            We knew this though, didn't we? June was far too late to get into the 2023 budget. The implementation group won't be reporting their findings till December at the earliest, and some of the appointments to me filled in the oversight body have yet to be filled.
            Which means that it will be budget 2024 before we could see something. There is money around plenty of it but instead of doing some good with it it will be spent on buying votes and in doing so push up inflation even more. We have a hot economy, why are rents high, yes there is the supply issue but there is also the willingness of people to pay those prices when they find the offer.It is the same with energy cost, they will continue to go up until the demand starts to drop. The government is doing all it can to ensure that the demand does not drop and all the while the energy supplies are raking it in with massive profits.

            We put our hops of the CoDF and we have been let down, it will drag on through the department until people have forgotten about it. The White Paper of 2015 is now nearing the end of its implementation period, where is the MRV, where are the military radars, they are no where to be seen. Tomorrow we have the centenary of the killing of Michael Collins and recently there was the question in The Examiner what would he think of the current situation as Chief of Staff. What people over looked was that he was not only CoS but also the Minister for Finance and that is something which had a major effect. Not that I am saying we should have a coup but the CoS needs to have a much more active role and he must have 100% control over the DF budget.

            As for the recruitment issue, this has been an issue for more than 20 years and the image of the DF as a quality employer has been massively damaged. But we know we are not alone in this issue, the US has major issue, the UK and Canada also. In fact all over the western world there is a manpower issue. And I think many will solve it with an old solution, conscription. We have already seen Sweden reintroduce it and others are thinking the same. Some EU countries never got rid of it Austria, Cyprus, Denmank, Estonia, Finland, Greece, and Lithuania.

            But flashy kit does attract people, there is nothing that will attract pilots more than the possibility to fly jet fighters! A frigate will attract more than a fisher patrol vessel, a tank will trump a Land Cruiser. Kit attracts as does remuneration but we put it all off again so the younger generations will be again lost as possible recruits.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by EUFighter View Post

              Which means that it will be budget 2024 before we could see something. There is money around plenty of it but instead of doing some good with it it will be spent on buying votes and in doing so push up inflation even more. We have a hot economy, why are rents high, yes there is the supply issue but there is also the willingness of people to pay those prices when they find the offer.It is the same with energy cost, they will continue to go up until the demand starts to drop. The government is doing all it can to ensure that the demand does not drop and all the while the energy supplies are raking it in with massive profits.

              We put our hops of the CoDF and we have been let down, it will drag on through the department until people have forgotten about it. The White Paper of 2015 is now nearing the end of its implementation period, where is the MRV, where are the military radars, they are no where to be seen. Tomorrow we have the centenary of the killing of Michael Collins and recently there was the question in The Examiner what would he think of the current situation as Chief of Staff. What people over looked was that he was not only CoS but also the Minister for Finance and that is something which had a major effect. Not that I am saying we should have a coup but the CoS needs to have a much more active role and he must have 100% control over the DF budget.

              As for the recruitment issue, this has been an issue for more than 20 years and the image of the DF as a quality employer has been massively damaged. But we know we are not alone in this issue, the US has major issue, the UK and Canada also. In fact all over the western world there is a manpower issue. And I think many will solve it with an old solution, conscription. We have already seen Sweden reintroduce it and others are thinking the same. Some EU countries never got rid of it Austria, Cyprus, Denmank, Estonia, Finland, Greece, and Lithuania.

              But flashy kit does attract people, there is nothing that will attract pilots more than the possibility to fly jet fighters! A frigate will attract more than a fisher patrol vessel, a tank will trump a Land Cruiser. Kit attracts as does remuneration but we put it all off again so the younger generations will be again lost as possible recruits.
              General Michael Collins was the Commander-in-Chief not the Chief of Staff - may appear a subtle difference but it is a very important legal difference.

              Until the powers of COS are amended and he/she has operational and legal control of the DF there isn’t a hope of anything changing.

              id suggest that is why that decision has been pushed out

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by DeV View Post

                General Michael Collins was the Commander-in-Chief not the Chief of Staff - may appear a subtle difference but it is a very important legal difference.

                Until the powers of COS are amended and he/she has operational and legal control of the DF there isn’t a hope of anything changing.

                id suggest that is why that decision has been pushed out
                I stand corrected, Michael Colins was Minister for Finance and CiC while Richard Mulcahy was Minister for Defence and CoS.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Interestingly Wiki, that great bastion of knowledge has taken to report our defence budget as only the Vote 36 value excluding the Vote 35.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Little known fact, it was under Michael Collins that the Revenue Commissioners as it currently exists was created. He wrote on this exact date 100 years ago, while in Cork to W.T Cosgrave, that 3 independent men were needed to manage the collecting of revenues. I can't find the exact quote right now, but the organisation has retained its independence from govt more or less since (with certain embarrassing exceptions).
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                      Interestingly Wiki, that great bastion of knowledge has taken to report our defence budget as only the Vote 36 value excluding the Vote 35.
                      You are free to update this yourself. That's how it works

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        General Michael Collins was the Commander-in-Chief not the Chief of Staff - may appear a subtle difference but it is a very important legal difference.

                        Until the powers of COS are amended and he/she has operational and legal control of the DF there isn’t a hope of anything changing.

                        id suggest that is why that decision has been pushed out
                        How would the COS changing to be the Commander in Chief solve anything at all. Pay ? no . Capital expenditure ? no . they're functions of the oireachtas
                        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by trellheim View Post

                          How would the COS changing to be the Commander in Chief solve anything at all. Pay ? no . Capital expenditure ? no . they're functions of the oireachtas
                          because then the DF would have control of Strategic HR for example

                          He would also have to be made accounting officer

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            nothing is stopping the DF from recruiting and while making the COS accounting officer would be nice it would not solve most of the systemic issues

                            The department write regulations and thats never going to change. Coveney could go in and argue for more money into Cabinet tomorrow to fix the most egregious stuff but the COS could not no matter what hat he is wearing. In 2001 there was a ton of money around for APCs ( now it was from closing barracks of course, but so what ) and the money got spent with a DOD accounting officer in place - so it can be done. political will is first last and always the driving force
                            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                              nothing is stopping the DF from recruiting and while making the COS accounting officer would be nice it would not solve most of the systemic issues

                              The department write regulations and thats never going to change. Coveney could go in and argue for more money into Cabinet tomorrow to fix the most egregious stuff but the COS could not no matter what hat he is wearing. In 2001 there was a ton of money around for APCs ( now it was from closing barracks of course, but so what ) and the money got spent with a DOD accounting officer in place - so it can be done. political will is first last and always the driving force
                              If DoD want it to be spent


                              Comment


                              • #75
                                If DoD want it to be spent
                                sure .... but that will be the same no matter what.
                                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                                Comment

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