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  • Defence Vote Group

    Spending Review 2017
    Defence Vote Group


    http://www.per.gov.ie/wp-content/upl...enditure-1.pdf


    An interesting figure is that the average defence spend per head of population is just €190.50 for the year.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
    Spending Review 2017
    Defence Vote Group


    http://www.per.gov.ie/wp-content/upl...enditure-1.pdf


    An interesting figure is that the average defence spend per head of population is just €190.50 for the year.
    What a load of spin, if you were to believe the report you would think we are spending too much on defence.

    The best bit is pg10 were the global decline is compared to that of ireland since the end of the cold war. Global decline from 3.2% GDP to 2.3%, so 0.9% of GDP drop. While from 1991 to 2013 our only fell 0.5% of GDP , from 1.2% to 0.7% of GDP! So we are good..... But the global decline was 28% while our was a 42% decline, now that we are at 0.4% of GDP the decline is 67%.

    Even the comparison with New Zealand falls apart when you look at the figures. It is like someone is trying to convice us we are spending too much on defence but not!

    Comment


    • #3
      And 25% went on pensions

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        And 25% went on pensions
        As the total continues to fall that percentage will rise.

        Comment


        • #5
          Defence expenditure as a percentage of GDP from 1999 to 2019.

          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #6
            Matching graph for European Union


            tells you ALL you need to know
            Last edited by trellheim; 28 February 2021, 18:52.
            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

            Comment


            • #7
              DoD must be looking at that chart upside down, that explains why they have been cutting the DF for years.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                DoD must be looking at that chart upside down, that explains why they have been cutting the DF for years.
                Restrictive Credit Framework for Defence. As GDP rises , maintain same Defence spend, and percentages fall. 1999 spend at .80% of 100Bn. In 2019 spend is at about .25% of 356Bn. This indicates NO Defence Planning, NO Defence modernisation, just talk, and re-arranging the Deck chairs plus dumping things that might help put food on the table.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                  Matching graph for European Union


                  tells you ALL you need to know
                  At least Iceland does the decent thing and lets foreign forces protect it's territory. No pretence of neutrality.
                  Though looking at the cesspit that is the Journal.ie Comments yesterday, it is clear Ireland is still full of those who know nothing about the Defence forces, but still think they are a waste of money. And one claimed to have 22 years service.

                  People need to get on-message.
                  Last edited by na grohmiti; 1 March 2021, 11:17.
                  German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                  German 2: Private? I am a general!
                  German 1: That is the bad news.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Moving the dial to even the EU Average - 1.1% or thereabouts - would entail 500% increase in Defence spending. Even Portugal which is fairly poor is four times our spend as a %
                    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If we even brought our defence vote back to 1999 levels as a percentage, it would be an enormous boost for the Defence Forces.
                      The question is, if we weren't getting it, where did the extra 0.79% of gdp go? That's almost 3 Billion!
                      German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                      German 2: Private? I am a general!
                      German 1: That is the bad news.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                        Matching graph for European Union


                        tells you ALL you need to know
                        I can't believe I'm sayin this but in the Government's defence, Ireland's GDP figure is highly screwed by multinationals and is unfortunately not a like for like comparison.

                        Our raw GDP figures don't represent our actual capacity to pay for all services including defence. If Ireland was matching the average GDP % spend of other EU states on defence; we would actually be spending a lot more of our 'real' national output on defence. In fact, we'd probably be one of the big spenders in percentage terms.

                        The CSO and CBI have released numerous papers over the last few years. GNI* is a much better representation of where our economy is at.

                        https://www.centralbank.ie/news/arti...4-january-2021

                        The graph presented on the face of it is comparing a basket apples but in reality is comparing a bunch of apples and one orange.

                        Ireland's actual figure changes from 0.21% to 0.27% which is of course, not much better from a low baseline.

                        If Ireland was paying the EU average of 1.2% of GDP this would in reality be 1.6% for us which put us just short of France.
                        Last edited by Auldsod; 1 March 2021, 13:56.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                          I can't believe I'm sayin this but in the Government's defence, Ireland's GDP figure is highly screwed by multinationals and is unfortunately not a like for like comparison.

                          Our raw GDP figures don't represent our actual capacity to pay for all services including defence. If Ireland was matching the average GDP % spend of other EU states on defence; we would actually be spending a lot more of our 'real' national output on defence. In fact, we'd probably be one of the big spenders in percentage terms.

                          The CSO and CBI have released numerous papers over the last few years. GNI* is a much better representation of where our economy is at.

                          https://www.centralbank.ie/news/arti...4-january-2021

                          The graph presented on the face of it is comparing a basket apples but in reality is comparing a bunch of apples and one orange.

                          Ireland's actual figure changes from 0.21% to 0.27% which is of course, not much better from a low baseline.

                          If Ireland was paying the EU average of 1.2% of GDP this would in reality be 1.6% for us which put us just short of France.
                          So in essence we need to use GNI across the board

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                            I can't believe I'm sayin this but in the Government's defence, Ireland's GDP figure is highly screwed by multinationals and is unfortunately not a like for like comparison.

                            Our raw GDP figures don't represent our actual capacity to pay for all services including defence. If Ireland was matching the average GDP % spend of other EU states on defence; we would actually be spending a lot more of our 'real' national output on defence. In fact, we'd probably be one of the big spenders in percentage terms.

                            The CSO and CBI have released numerous papers over the last few years. GNI* is a much better representation of where our economy is at.

                            https://www.centralbank.ie/news/arti...4-january-2021

                            The graph presented on the face of it is comparing a basket apples but in reality is comparing a bunch of apples and one orange.

                            Ireland's actual figure changes from 0.21% to 0.27% which is of course, not much better from a low baseline.

                            If Ireland was paying the EU average of 1.2% of GDP this would in reality be 1.6% for us which put us just short of France.
                            By ether scale, even at under 1%(as it was pre 1999) we would still be spending closer to €3bn per annum on defence.
                            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                            German 2: Private? I am a general!
                            German 1: That is the bad news.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ireland's GDP figure is highly screwed by multinationals and is unfortunately not a like for like comparison
                              However it IS the comparative metric that Eurostat compare us on so by definition that is what everyone uses . The GNI copout is just that. We can tax em if we wanted to
                              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                              Comment

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