Equipment Development Plan

[CTU]

Completely disgusted. No radars, no GBADS, no interception capability, no sonars, no replacement for CPVs, no mention of MCM capability, no ability to protect fibre optic ocean cables. Lions led by donkeys. A century of independence and we are still reliant on a nuclear power and NATO member to provide for our national defence. Coveney should resign and the DoD cleared out. The brave underpaid sailors, soldiers and air crews are butt of government neglect and indifference. Defence forces, well there’s an oxymoron. What we have ,equipment wise,is a gendarme, a coastguard and a flight training school. We are an embarrassment amongst our European peers. Rant over. Looking to lie down in a dark room

They arent going to commit to anything extra until the CoDF reports, and have effectivley now kicked the can, probably to the next government, to fund the reports recomendations on future capital projects. Either that or fund a new filing cabinet in the DoD for the report to gather dust in.

[Sparky42]

They arent going to commit to anything extra until the CoDF reports, and have effectivley now kicked the can, probably to the next government, to fund the reports recomendations on future capital projects. Either that or fund a new filing cabinet in the DoD for the report to gather dust in.

I’m going to guess, option b from your list.

[warthog]

They arent going to commit to anything extra until the CoDF reports, and have effectivley now kicked the can, probably to the next government, to fund the reports recomendations on future capital projects. Either that or fund a new filing cabinet in the DoD for the report to gather dust in.

how many white papers etc have we had already? most of it bollocks

[CTU]

how many white papers etc have we had already? most of it bollocks

How many times has a "Dublin Metro" to the airport been mentioned in these so-called National Development Plans, or the motorway between Limerick and Cork. Most of these development plans are bollocks as you so aptly say, unless of course you happen to be an Independent TD who is propping up a government with a special deal on a new road.

[ODIN]

The biggest issue with the Cork-Limerick motorway is the route of the thing! Use the existing M8 as far as Mitchelstown or Cahir, and cut across to Limerick from there. There you go Eamonn, I've cut the cost for you in half!! And all it cost me was annoying the residents of Mallow, Buttevant and Charleville!

[na grohmiti]

The biggest issue with the Cork-Limerick motorway is the route of the thing! Use the existing M8 as far as Mitchelstown or Cahir, and cut across to Limerick from there. There you go Eamonn, I've cut the cost for you in half!! And all it cost me was annoying the residents of Mallow, Buttevant and Charleville!

Once they get the heavy vehicles off their doorstep they won't mind either.
Of greater priority (in my humble opinion) is a decent motorway linking Waterford and Limerick with each other, via the M8 at Cahir.(somewhere). Current road from Limerick to Waterford is nuts.

[Truck Driver]

The biggest issue with the Cork-Limerick motorway is the route of the thing! Use the existing M8 as far as Mitchelstown or Cahir, and cut across to Limerick from there. There you go Eamonn, I've cut the cost for you in half!! And all it cost me was annoying the residents of Mallow, Buttevant and Charleville!

That was the big debate alright

1. Build new M20 Limerick-Cork (huge dinari) OR

2. Build new M24 spur Limerick - M8 (less dinari but projected extra 30min journey time Limerick-Cork using this versus Option 1 above)

My personal opinion:
Option 2 a no brainer because:

a. Cheaper and valuable funds can be used elsewhere

b. Gives scope for onward completion of M24 to link Waterford to Limerick (could link to M9 and possibly shorten somewhat - again, saving €€€)

EDIT:
Having looked at the map more closely, probably no benefit linking to the M9. To do so would involve traversing some very hilly country in the Piltown-Mullinavat region

[Rhodes]

In terms of equipment, the Report of the Commission has some good points, some bad and some copy and paste.

The replacement of the Mowags with a larger fleet of APC's with level 4 protection by 2030.
Increased transport for Infantry Battalions.
The RBS 70 is obsolete and should be replaced.
The EC135 and AW139 helicopters are due to be replaced before 2030.
Primary radar for the Air Corps should be procured immediately and is a top priority.
A successor long-range aircraft for the Gulfstream IV is needed.
Join the Strategic Airlift Capability programme.
Two additional AW139 helicopters should be procured.
Replace AW139's with eight super‐medium helicopters.
C‐UAS system for the Air Corps.
Air, surface and sub‐surface search capability for naval ships.
Ship‐borne RPAS.
Two MMCM capable ships.
Coastal radar for the Naval Service.
The P50's to be replaced in the 2030s.

Under LOA3

All Infantry Battalions to be mechanised.
Naval service fleet to include 'Tier 3' type OPV's.
The Air Corps to get a squadron of jet combat aircraft.
Two or three troop carrier type aircraft.
Tactical troop transport helicopters for overseas, enough to move a platoon and for CSAR.
Dedicated combat helicopters to support the ARW.

A lot in the report is quite vague and requires reading between the lines and knowing what's already on the shopping list.
The Mowag replacement was due for 2030 already. No mention of the LTAV's.
Saying the primary radar should be procured immediately and is a top priority is one of the few good things for the Air Corps in LOA2.
No tactical airlift aircraft for the Air Corps is a huge disappointment. A Gulfstream IV successor is belated.
Two additional AW139's is disappointing as well, really should be two heavy-twin helicopters. Super‐medium helicopters won't offer many capability advantages over the AW139.
No overseas for the Air Corps unless its LOA3 is another big disappointment. No mention of maritime capable helicopters.
The Naval Service ships being upgraded with air, surface and sub‐surface search capabilities would be a good boost as well as coastal radar.
Everything else for the Naval Service is just what the White Paper says.

[DeV]

MBES is a permanent fit.

P50s fitted circa 2015/16

P60s will require drydocking to fit MBES

https://twitter.com/naval_service/status/1518969452603363328?s=46&t=ahUUsACyhsXSuXcfOwlyxQ

[gaff85]

With all the equipment being supplied to Ukraine, having to be back filled from new orders or current stocks, I see an issue with delivery dates for anything/all items purchased by the Irish defence forces, across the 3 pillars.

[DeV]

With all the equipment being supplied to Ukraine, having to be back filled from new orders or current stocks, I see an issue with delivery dates for anything/all items purchased by the Irish defence forces, across the 3 pillars.

Don’t think that is going to an exclusively Irish problem

[na grohmiti]

Alternatively, a full order book means the Defence industry does not need to cut corners when it comes to staffing, and extra staff are introduced to cope with demand. For example new production lines have opened for the western made anti tank missile in use in Ukraine.

[Banner]

With all the equipment being supplied to Ukraine, having to be back filled from new orders or current stocks, I see an issue with delivery dates for anything/all items purchased by the Irish defence forces, across the 3 pillars.

Well before we get to worry about orders being fulfilled they have to be placed. Given the incredibly disappointing response to the CoFD and the fact that after 12 months we are going backwards rather than making progress it doesn’t matter how busy the defence industry is.

DF numbers in free fall
Rosin and Niamh tied up (1 of which has just come out of an expensive refit)
No orders or even a tender for any new equipment.

At this rate I’m sorry to say I don’t think there will be any significant progress before the next election and then just watch the can be given an almighty kick down the road by the new government.

Apologies for being so cynical and I hope I’m wrong

[DeV]

Alternatively, a full order book means the Defence industry does not need to cut corners when it comes to staffing, and extra staff are introduced to cope with demand. For example new production lines have opened for the western made anti tank missile in use in Ukraine.

But that extra production will be going to Ukraine and to refill the NATO stockpiles before NATO can even think of increasing their stock levels from what they were.

any non-NATO country is going to be at the very back of a very long queue

[DeV]

Well before we get to worry about orders being fulfilled they have to be placed. Given the incredibly disappointing response to the CoFD and the fact that after 12 months we are going backwards rather than making progress it doesn’t matter how busy the defence industry is.

DF numbers in free fall
Rosin and Niamh tied up (1 of which has just come out of an expensive refit)
No orders or even a tender for any new equipment.

At this rate I’m sorry to say I don’t think there will be any significant progress before the next election and then just watch the can be given an almighty kick down the road by the new government.

Apologies for being so cynical and I hope I’m wrong

Plenty of tenders going out…. Not for major equipment but there is at least some for much needed Accomodiation upgrades and the like