Commission on the Defence Forces - Reserve Discussion

[Truck Driver]

Yes but PDF (and RDF) recruit and 2-3* training syllabi are very different now.

There are some very basic and useful areas (both life & military skills that are essential section level tasks) on both PDF syllabi that aren’t on either. But there is a balance I absolutely agree.

We need continuation syllabi on some of these and not to be run at unit level

Agree with the statement above (bold)
Only way to ensure matching standards is to run this at Bde / All Army level

[trellheim]

Units weren't incentivised to make people non effective (in fact the opposite was the case),

ahh Deontas i gCabhair flashback (Grant in Aid) remember that lol

[DeV]

Agree with the statement above (bold)
Only way to ensure matching standards is to run this at Bde / All Army level

Not the reason I was thinking of .... centralised to create critical mass. No point in 4 Inf battalions running 60mm mortar course for 4 students each, run 1 for the whole Bde

[Truck Driver]

Not the reason I was thinking of .... centralised to create critical mass. No point in 4 Inf battalions running 60mm mortar course for 4 students each, run 1 for the whole Bde

There is that also

[Poiuyt]

There was no major change in 1996 but the numbers have been on a continual slide more or less since and thats a fact . They were static from about 13 years - 1983-1996 at about 15,000 . Pay, uniforms, grat problems have existed all the way through these periods ( it was brutal when I joined in 86) . The answer lies elsewhere.

I would put as lot of it down to the divide between those who wanted to make it a more professional organisation and those who wanted to maintain the status quo.

Additionally I would put it down to a PDF who couldn't care less.

My experience of the RDF has been of a constant struggle to improve standards - everything being a fight. Huge amounts of effort made to achieve the bare minimum and then watching it all being pissed away. For example, years spent recruiting, training and leading only for 2 platoons to turn up on a training night in the pissing rain only to be left there, in the rain, because no one had the keys to any training rooms, no shelter for anyone, no rain gear. It was the last time that half those people were ever seen.

The 2013 re-org was the last straw for me. Saw several excellent officers get shafted - Positions given to the "Good ole Boys" who drank tea in the mess. Several young active officers, who for years had taken all sorts of crap in order to get the job done, thrown onto the scrap heap, forgotten about and ignored. I knew 1 officer who didn't find out his final appointment for months, that appointment being "Scrap heap". I saw many of them walk, or just disappear, not willing to continue the futile struggle. Another I knew recalled his Greek Mythology and called it a Sisyphean task (Sisyphus was forced to roll an huge boulder up a hill only for it to roll back down every time, for eternity.).

We all remember that having a course done was a huge black mark AGAINST you for promotion or advancement in your new unit. It was all wasted and punished effort.

And the PDF - They needed us in the 70's & 80's but things changed in the 90's. After that they didn't care anymore. Don't blame them, not their problem. Being made Commandant of an RDF Battalion was a retirement present or a punishment.

[batterysgt]

Most of what you said is true. And unfortunately, it has not changed enough to benefit the org.More of those young Officers are needed and less of the tea drinkers.

[na grohmiti]

Most of what you said is true. And unfortunately, it has not changed enough to benefit the org. More of those young Officers are needed and less of the tea drinkers.

The 2005 reorg rewarded the teadrinkers, and the rest found better things to do with their lives. I was on a Standard NCO course with one serial teadrinker who proudly informed us all the only reason they were on Standard Course was because it was easier to get on Pot Offr Course as a Sgt. No interest in being a Sgt, no ability to do so, this became evident throughout the course. How they made corporal was also a mystery. I witnessed enthusiastic course officers, who were willing to correct this persons attitude being slapped down by more senior officers from that persons home unit for an unrelated non existent manufactured incident leading said officer to withdraw completely their involvement in the remainder of the course.
Lo and behold the following year we heard that student in question was on Potential Officers Course. Their level of usefulness had not changed, but because nobody fails a course in the RDF, they were commissioned, and when the reorg happened they got an appointment, while others were left supernumary.
Did I mention their parent was also an officer?
In most parts of the country, these were the people the units were left with. Other officers were given postings nowhere near their geographical area, yes still in the same "unit".
In civvy life, this is called constructive dismissal. How is a young officer with a civvy job and a young family expected to travel to a different county once a week for a 2 hour "parade" in which they are under no illusion they are not welcome, because there is already a local supernumary running the show.

I read Poiuyt's posts and can't help thinking I served with them at some stage because the stories are so familiar. Or it could just be the same happened all over the country. A generation of young officers walked away from the organisation. Only the larger units managed to hold on to the quality officers. Smaller units couldn't hold their interest. I keep contact with what the Reserve do now, via what I see in social media (I no longer know anyone who is still serving that was serving when I left in 2011). Many of the idiots got promoted. They have positions of actual influence now!

Trell (and one other on this site who's handle gives away his identity more that I am comfortable with) is the only exception that know of from that generation who managed to stay in the Army reserve and make a difference, and for that I virtually salute you.

[trellheim]

one benefit - or not - depends on your point of view - of the awful numbers - is the sheer amount of work out there means few teadrinkers are left.

[trellheim]

I apologise because I know I am throwing questions at Mr. O'Driscoll left, right and centre but I move on to the Reserve. An issue raised with me regularly is the lack of a permanent headquarters, HQ, for the Reserve that would facilitate training and development and encourage more activity within the Reserve. One option that has been put out there is looking at one of the closed barracks as part of that restructuring. It would be one that would be central, easily accessed from the motorways and from Dublin, the Curragh and the Glen of Imaal, that would have sufficient land for small- and large-scale exercises and access to training facilities for water-based activities. Is that something the commission will examine? Will the commission go on to examine the potential for overseas participation by reservists? If so, what model is it looking at or what existing country has a system that may suit Ireland?

who on earth is raising this muck with TDs of all the problems we face, a permanent HQ is so far down the bottom of the list its touching bottom.

Remember DRES in Clonmel ? Did fk all and was a retirement home for the bewildered or those who "liked the odd drink" . All our units are pdf units bar NSR ... fk me the level of insular idiots out there

[na grohmiti]

who on earth is raising this muck with TDs of all the problems we face, a permanent HQ is so far down the bottom of the list its touching bottom.

Remember DRES in Clonmel ? Did fk all and was a retirement home for the bewildered or those who "liked the odd drink" . All our units are pdf units bar NSR ... fk me the level of insular idiots out there

That was a Michael Smith special. The same stroke got the Civil Defence training centre to Roscrea of all places (also under his portfolio).
It may just be another avenue to restore Athlone to its past status, given her constituency.
However anyone who thinks SF/PIRA have any interest in the welfare of Oglaigh Na hEireann needs a recent history lesson.

[DeV]

who on earth is raising this muck with TDs of all the problems we face, a permanent HQ is so far down the bottom of the list its touching bottom.

Remember DRES in Clonmel ? Did fk all and was a retirement home for the bewildered or those who "liked the odd drink" . All our units are pdf units bar NSR ... fk me the level of insular idiots out there

Seen the RDFRA submission?

there was 2 directorates decentralised to Clonmel.

D Res and D MP make of that what you will

[trellheim]

D RES was in Clonmel long before Michael Smith.
RDFRA submission is not representative in the slightest, A TD should not be given this kind of briefing material its meretricious cobblers

[Poiuyt]

one benefit - or not - depends on your point of view - of the awful numbers - is the sheer amount of work out there means few teadrinkers are left.

Oh, the tea drinkers are experts at getting out of work - probably why active officers are getting drowned in it. Get themselves "Elected" to RDFRA and cushy PAID position.

RDFRA submission is not representative in the slightest,

And that is a surprise? RDFRA is the refuge of the tea drinkers, has been for years.

[apod]

Speaking to a couple of AR buddies recently. They haven't had a RDFRA District AGM in Years yet there are two people from their unit on the RDFRA NEC. One of which hasn't worn the Uniform outside on St Patricks day in years also.Promises to show up for everything but doesn't.

[Sluggie]

Speaking to a couple of AR buddies recently. They haven't had a RDFRA District AGM in Years yet there are two people from their unit on the RDFRA NEC. One of which hasn't worn the Uniform outside on St Patricks day in years also.Promises to show up for everything but doesn't.

Every Unit and Sub Unit in the RDF (about 50) had an election in the past few months. All RDFRA members received an email notifying them of the election time and date. This was also published on social media. Scroll back through the RDFRA Twitter feed and you will see the notices.

Formation committee elections took place in the past three weeks and the National conference is on May 22nd.

There are no two members of the current NEC that come from the same unit.