What does the PDF need from the RDF?

[trellheim]

[MOD: Split from other]

What do the PDF actually need from the RDF?

[morpheus]

The PDF NEED their entry age limit RAISED.

They NEED more investment (not just money) in the Reserves,
- comprehensive PT training requirements for reservists,
- a more rigorous medical requirement for reservists,
legislation to protect reservists jobs,
- increased expenditure on basic equipment for PDF and RDF
- increased "on going" training, especially for RDF to train more often in section and platoon tactics with weapons, increased specialised training such as vehicle deployments, more fibua and even peacekeeping roles.
- far more integration of reserve and parent PDF units, in training of recruits privates and NCOs etc and on training deployments. Ive been to many parades now and only met our PDF liason once!!

Reservists should have the ability to transfer more or less directly to PDF if there is a role requirement that they fulfill, and their reserve training SHOULD BE RECOGNISED.

Until this happens, i cannot forsee how the govt or DOD can allow RDF to deploy overseas, because they obviously dont recognise our training as of yet.

What the PDF NEED MOST is a USEFUL RDF BACKUP!

[The Joker]

Originally posted by morpheus
The PDF NEED their entry age limit RAISED.

Why? I think the influx of youth into the P/R DF is a very good thing. Not only does it provide a source of new enthuastic people. But it also gives people the chance of going on the bigger and better things before they reach the retirement age.

- a more rigorous medical requirement for reservists

Would you have the DF AMC doing spinal taps, brain scans, etc.
This all adds up to more money. Which as you already said should be invested in other things.

- increased "on going" training

This from someone who hasnt even been sworn in yet!
Have you ever been in the Orderly Room. Ever seen a recruit training program? If you did you would change your views.

Ive been to many parades now and only met our PDF liason once!!

What reason would you have to warrant a meeting. They dont deal with recruits. They have more important things to do. It Cadre not liason.

Reservists should have the ability to transfer more or less directly to PDF if there is a role requirement that they fulfill, and their reserve training SHOULD BE RECOGNISED.

As you said yourself, you need more on going training, which, would lead me to believe that the training you are receiving, is not the best. But as a recruit would dont have anything to compare your training with. So if you think that the training needs to be improved, why should the PDF accept you as a fully trained soldier?

i cannot forsee how the govt or DOD can allow RDF to deploy overseas, because they obviously dont recognise our training as of yet.

Of course the DOD regconise the training, they are the once who set the standards. Do you think it was your training Cpl who said, em lets start this new thingy with that assault rifle yokey and call it T.O.E.T. No it was brought in the DOD. Get reall.

What the PDF NEED MOST is a USEFUL RDF BACKUP

No they dont. They have done with one for this long, what makes you think that they suddenly need us now. Granted the current global situations, but you wont see them come running to us with their tail betwen their legs asking for help.

Finally, my advice to you morpheus it to wait till you actually start training (not just marching), before you start to make such wild speculations. Wait till you have a few years service and then say I have seen how it is done and I dont like it. Not I have heard from pte x or cpl y and maybe we should do it this way. Dont go stepping on toes just yet. You still have a lot to learn.

[morpheus]

I think the age limit should be under 30, there are plenty of people quite the opposite who start in one career and decide they want a change, like me for one,i feel they should (like the uk and usa) allow age waivers within reason if they feel the person is fit, and able and would probably be beneificial to the force (very much like direct entry, but without you having to fill a specialised roll, eg, signals, medic, engineer) but hey, not much i can do about it, the DOD knows why its age limits are set, im only putting forward MY feelings.

ok by medical... i meant to say that there should be a fitness test, my mistake...

increased ongoing training, ok, another typo, i meant training more often than the current once a week and the odd weekend and a 1 week camp... (and i realise as a recruit i may be unaware of training the 2 and 3 stars get up to outside of the usual night i see them) but this wont come about without legislation about job protection in civvie street, etc.

the PDF liason thingy was, in hindsight, a dumb statement...

as for the DOD allowing us to serve overseas, i meant to say they should get the 1st line reserve up and running, where you can do increased training to get up to scratch and then be deployed, its been discussed here before.

the RDF still needs to be improved, and with the global situation, there will be increased demand on the PDF, and they should have a respectably trained and organised force behind them IF they need us, the re-org is going along ok from what ive heard, but ive also heard other things are taking longer than initially thought to go through, this govt and countries history of procrastination will be the straw that breaks the camels back with the DF, thats what im getting at....

thanks for the advice tho.

[Docman]

Ok, I have a few problems with what you said.

Originally posted by The Joker
Why? I think the influx of youth into the P/R DF is a very good thing. Not only does it provide a source of new enthuastic people.

The problem is that those young people are not enthusiastic and after a month or two decide to head off to quieter pastures. Things have improved but not by much.

Ever seen a recruit training program? If you did you would change your views.

Have you ever seen the Recruit syllabus being enforced across the RDF?
Most Recruit training programs are a fabrication.

Of course the DOD regconise the training, they are the once (sic) who set the standards.

But are those standards being maintained? How many people have failed TOETs only to be written in as passed? And what of civilian training, the DF gives not vredance to it even if it is of a higher level than that of the PDF, ie PTI.

but you wont see them come running to us with their tail betwen their legs asking for help.

That has more to do with stubborness than training or requirements!

They have done with one for this long

And look at the state the DF are in.

[FMolloy]

While over in the UK recently I came across a TA recruitment stand in a shopping centre & got talking to the soldiers there. They said the TA had more or less given up on recuiting teenagers in favour of older people. They reckon the older recuit's maturity means he's more likely to stick at it & put in the time.

[JAG]

The topic is what does the PDF need from the RDF. The answer of course, is nothing- there is feck all the RDF have that the PDF don't.

If the question is meant to be how could the PDF benefit from the RDF, the answer is of course massively.

There are engineers, doctors, lawyers, warehouse managers, IT specialists, truck drivers etc etc who could be used as more of a resource even as things stand (or rather stood when I left) even without proper training. Many potential roles of the RDF don't need crack commandos to fulfill them- specialist troops with basic infantry training would suffice.

This would enable to the PDF to concentrate on combat. In a war situation either (A) there will be enough notice to call up reserves or (B) the first line will prevent a defeat for long enough to mobilise the reserves. In the latter scenario, issues of supply will only matter for a couple of days. At the end of that time, either a supply chain will be in place or we will all be speaking Russian, or whatever.

High standards of infantry training would allow the PDF to concentrate less on conventional warfare- set piece battles etc etc- and allow for special forces. Try and imagine if Ireland had a couple of battalions of ARW and a division or two of marine corps or US Rangers.

This would allow, firstly, the DF to have the capacity to defend our nation, and secondly the capacity to contribute to major overseas operations of whatever nature

[Bulldog Jr.]

Can you really see the DF fighting a set prece battle?

1) No Air Cover
2) No Main Battle Tanks - or any sort of tanks
3) No Naval cover
4) At most they can only muster 22,000 ish Soldiers (including RDF) last time i heard the american marine corps was bigger than that - way bigger
5) etc
I think the RDF should be trained in Guerilla tactics do as in reality that is all I can see the DF doing as to stand and fight a set piece battle would be madniness, its a sorry state of affairs but its the truth. They may fight a token set piece battle, but anything further would be futile - better to fight guerilla warfare and hopefull do# like the Vietnamese did.

[The Joker]

Would this be a case of posting about things you know nothing about, me thinks it is

[morpheus]

http://www.military.ie/images/cav_pic1.jpg

yeah...
no tanks...
of ANY sort...
which means no tracked, turret mounting, canon toting, armoured, multi crewed vehicles???

no tanks....

[BRENDAN]

I agree fully with FMolloy, the PDF are not going to take the RDF for real until they get numbers of people trained up properly, its no good haveing numbers on paper but not having having them in the flesh! Instead of recruiting from schools go to local companies more!

[Docman]

Originally posted by morpheus
http://www.military.ie/images/cav_pic1.jpg

yeah...
no tanks...
of ANY sort...
which means no tracked, turret mounting, canon toting, armoured, multi crewed vehicles???

no tanks....

Yep, A CVR(T).

Consider it an AML with tracks instead of wheels.


"WHAT, That ain't a tank. Now this.....:D ..... This is a TANK"

[Bulldog Jr.]

Kermit I know that theres a massive difference in population and size, I was just saying it, Im not in anway saying we should try to match any army in numbers - we cant!
Right Joker if Im posting something I know nothing about - show me where our tanks are, we our air cover or AD (above 10,000 feet) assests are, or where our Naval cover is!Without any of these it is pointless forming up for a set piece battle as any army would nearly be defeated from the air alone.
Anyway this is off thread really.
I agree with morpheus the PDF need a useful backup in the RDF, the PDF are limited to [MOD: Edited out operational strength ] amount troops overseas at anyone time as anymore and they would be over streched if anymore were away. This is limiting the number of troops getting overseas service at anyone time. Whats stopping the RDF taking over duties such as cash escort and guard to enable more go overseas or other things? After all isnt that what we are meant to be here for - Back up to the PDF?

[Goldie fish]

Originally posted by kermit
Right boss.



Morpheus : That's not a tank. It's a CRVT - Close Recon Vehicle, Tracked

CVRT= Combat Vehicle Reconnaisance(tracked)=Alvis Scorpion/Scimtar
CVRW=Combat Vehicle Reconnaisance(Wheeled)=Alvis Fox

[Groundhog]

- far more integration of reserve and parent PDF units, in training of recruits privates and NCOs etc and on training deployments. Ive been to many parades now and only met our PDF liason once!!

Reserve units are individual units. They don't have parent PDF units. Which would be a good idea.

The long term plan for the Gov is to downsize, downsize, downsize. Forget about Marine divisions, Paras and Rangers. They won't ever be happening. No tanks, no jets and no ships either. The aim is a battalion to do PR on UN missions and a ceremonial unit at home. Any defence requirements can be blagged off the EU.