Simunitions

[Come-quickly]

Simunitions Will be familiar to anyone who saw the "truth about killing documentary" a few weeks ago.
They have replaced the MILES (laser system) with infantry units and consist of a reduced charge round with a special soft plastic bullet.
They hold the following advantages over Tessex type systems.
1. They will not be deflected by leaves, smoke etc.
2. They really really hurt therefore increasing the stress and realism of training exercises.

The major disadvantages AFAIK are
1. Cost
2. They do hurt you and might kill you
3. You have to wear additional protective gear in addition to your normal helmet and body armour.

But does the obvious training benefit make them a must for any army with ambitions towards high intensity fighting?

[morpheus]

Sure theyre like paintballs only harder!! :D

added realism = better training.

[Big Al]

You'll have some ones eye out with them.

I can just see the claims rolling in.

[Docman]

Let's just worry about getting some training on TES before we think about anything else.

[Come-quickly]

You'll have some ones eye out with them.

Hence the protective equipment which includes a paintball style facemask

Let's just worry about getting some training on TES before we think about anything else.

Actually I think its fair to say that most people with a few years behind them have already done at least one tessex

[ForkTailedDevil]

I've never heard of anyone getting badly hurt with them.They're mostly used by law enforcement agencies, arent they? The main benefit is that they give people a reason to duck because they behave more like real bullets.Other than that they need specialist firearms (expensive), a bunch of extra armour (heavy and reduce realism due to impaired mobility) and you end up with a bunch of bruised and battered squaddies to deal with afterwards ( though that might teach them something).The disadvantages probably outway the advantages in most cases.

[Docman]

Originally posted by Come-quickly
Actually I think its fair to say that most people with a few years behind them have already done at least one tessex

And you think that is adequate?

[Goldie fish]

I have been in many years and have yet to take part in one. And its not cos i was busy that day.... The only people in the Southern brigade I know who have participated in one were on courses such as Pot Officer...

[Come-quickly]

The inadequacy fo training time or availability of equipment to reserves is not the issue here.
If tes gear isnt being made available bde level and you want to discuss why make another topic.

[Goldie fish]

I think you made TESS part of this topic when you included it in the Poll. Whats wrong with TESS? We never get to use it,thats what!

[Joshua]

TES is included in the poll. However, the thread relates to simunitions. Reference to TES is allowed but try to answer the question posed by CQ,

"But does the obvious training benefit make them a must for any army with ambitions towards high intensity fighting?"

Regards etc

[Goldie fish]

Docman started it....


Anyway, In the past simunition was available for the 9mm Gustav. Though I dont think they were ever used here.Considering recent incidents,serious training must take place to get individuals used to the hazards of carrying and using live ammo. Live firing exercises,when the soldiers level of training may be poor are a bit of an extreme way of doing this,and the consequences are quite serious, being hit by an errant live round during a Live firing ex can be detrimental to your health,and career. Simunitions,though still dangerous,would get the same point across with less serious injuries.

[Come-quickly]

You may recall that the german army used wooden bullets for the same purpose in the past, I've heard mention of chalk bullets having been used in US military schools in the past.
So its hardly a new science.

[yellowjacket]

The Soviets in WWII developed a novel if somewhat Darwinian approach to infantry training in a short time. Joe Recruitski would be handed a PPSh and as much ammo as he could carry on the first day of the course, along with boots, uniform and such. He would then commence his weeks basic training which consisted of a non stop live-fire exercise. The nature of these activities meant that casualties were high, 5-10%, if I remember right.
It was presumed that at the end of this the soldiers who graduated were competent. They would then be handed a new PPSh, old ones were burned out, and head for the front.

[Steamy Window]

during the cold war the soviets did live chemical warfare tests, the japs did live-fire ASW exercises before WWII and sunk at least one of their own subs.