Punishment for murder of DF member

[no.one]

The murder of a garda, prison officer, head of foreign state, foreign government member and foreign diplomat results in a minimum period of imprisonment of not less than 40 years.
I always believed that members of the DF were also covered by this, but it seems I was wrong. What would happen if a member of the df was killed in the course of their duty?

[yellowjacket]

I supposeit's treated like any other murder in that case.

In the event of assault, there is this provision:

CRIMINAL JUSTICE (PUBLIC ORDER) ACT, 1994 SECTION 19

19.—(1) Any person who—

( a ) assaults a peace officer acting in the execution of the peace officer's duty, knowing that he is, or being reckless as to whether he is, a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty, or
( b ) assaults any other person acting in the aid of a peace officer, or
( c ) assaults any other person with intent to resist or prevent the lawful apprehension or detention of himself or any other person for any offence,
shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) shall be liable—

( a ) having elected for summary disposal of the offence, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to both,
( b ) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.
(3) Any person who resists or wilfully obstructs a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty or a person assisting a peace officer in the execution of his duty, knowing that he is or being reckless as to whether he is, a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty, shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

(5) The provisions of this section are in addition to and not in substitution of any provision in any other enactment relating to assault or obstruction of a peace officer.

(6) In this section—

"peace officer" means a member of the Garda Síochána, a prison officer or a member of the Defence Forces;

"prison" means any place for which rules or regulations may be made under the Prisons Acts, 1826 to 1980, section 7 of the Offences against the State (Amendment) Act, 1940, section 233 of the Defence Act, 1954, section 2 of the Prisoners of War and Enemy Aliens Act, 1956, or section 13 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1960;

"prison officer" includes any member of the staff of a prison and any person having the custody of, or having duties in relation to the custody of, a person detained in prison.

[Erwin]

The perp/perps would be tried as per a murder charge!

[Johnny2Stripes]

Sounds like something to be brought up when the door to door gang come a knocking!

[Goldie fish]

What happens when the Murderers are convicted of Manslaughter under plea bargaining to appease the terrorists?

[JAG]

"if there are 2 gangsters robbing a cash escort and gangster A shoots a Guard dead and Gangster B shoots a soldier dead
on conviction A gets done under section 3(as seen above) this means he serves a minimun of 40 years ( section 5 of the act) and more importantly his temporary release and the power to communte are totally restricted so A serves 40 years (minus the normal remission)
gangster B who shot the soldier is done under the normal murder act and serves life (11 or more years) with all the subsequent temporary releases etc"

Just a technicality, but both A&B are guilty of both murders. Who strikes the death blow/oulls the trigger is unimportant.

And murder demands a life sentence, from which you may only be released on licence, and may be re-incarcerated at any time, essentially at the pleasure. It is important to remember that, even if it is seldom applied.

[no.one]

I saw recently that the average time served for a life sentence was 11 years. This is hardly a fitting punishment.

[yellowjacket]

Given that members of the DF receive the same legal protection as a Garda or Prison Officer if assaulted, it is odd that this doesnt extend to murder.

Wonder was there a reason for this at the time of debating the bill? Might have a look at www.oireachtas.ie

Edit:
Looking at the Dail debates, the definition of capital murder used in the 1990 act was the same as used in the Criminal Justice Act 1964, which provided for the death penalty in cases of capital murder. In the debates leading up to it, the justification was that Gardai and Prison Officers did their duty unarmed. The murder of a member of the DF was not mentioned in the debate, so presumably the fact they were armed removed them from consideration.

[JAG]

Hedgehog

"Jag raises an important point, both gangster A & B are guilty of murder but it is Gnagster A( who killed the Guard) who the state will punish more severly, 40 years as opposed to 11 years ( thanks No.one)"

I think you misunderstand me- Legally A&B are both guilty of each murder. They will each be convicted of the murder of the Garda AND of the murder of the DF member. Each will therefore be liable for 40 years without parole for the murder of the garda, on top of a life sentence for murder of the DF member.

[hptmurphy]

The simple soloution that soldier A 's colleagues riddle gangsters A and B ....no problemo.


A life less ordinary....? or a life more expendable?

[yellowjacket]

I did, murder of a DF member was not mentioned then either. The debate on that act largely centred on removing the death penalty, capital murder was defined in the 1964 act.