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  • Representation

    Combatlogo said, "Let's just say that some aspects of the Irish military appear foreign to me such as compensation and union representation...."

    I'll try and explain "union representation". Hopefully, it will inlighten others as well.

    Firstly, it isn't "union representation", just representation, unions have a right to strike, but the DF are not allowed to. PDFORRA, RACO, and RDFRA are not unions, they are Representative Associations.

    PDFORRA - PDF Other Ranks Representative Association
    RACO - Representative Association of Commissioned Officers
    RDFRA - RDF Representative Association

    They are statutory bodies recognised by the Government and subject to DF Regulations S7. They were set up to allow members of the DF to have influence on conditions of service that is not normally possible through the chain of command.

    The following specifically relates to RDFRA.

    Scope of Representation:
    Renumeration (Pay, Allowance, Gratuity, Deductions)
    Conditions of Service (Entry Criteria)
    Performance Appraisals
    Criteria for Promotion
    Medical & Dental benefits following accidents on duty
    Standards of training accomodiation
    Procedures for Redress of Wrongs
    Provision of Legal Representation
    Application of Health & Safety at Work Act 1989
    Retirement, Resignation, Discharge Procedures
    Clothing & personal equipment (not weapons)
    Recognition by other side bodies of qualifications
    Amendments to Defence Act & DF Regulations

    Outside the remit:
    Operational Matters
    Disciplinary Matters (RDFRA can only provide information, NOT advise)
    Actual Promotions
    Communications with the Press

    Achievements:
    Improved Clothing
    60% increase in Gratuity over 5 years
    Pay increases
    Waiver of charges for substandard accomodiation
    Driving courses for other than Cav & Tpt
    Consultation on Reorganisation
    Increase in Courses & mandays
    Payment of Pay Arrears
    Refunds for rations & quarters
    Increase in messing allowance
    Removal of embargo on promotions
    Increase in officers' uniform allowance

    Limitations:
    Structure is based on "command" system
    Offically, lowest port of call for RDFRA is GOC level, but that is a plus as well
    No Consiliation & Arbitration scheme, unlike PDF associations, the DOD won't give it to RDFRA, because it would mean they would have to provide us with A *** OF A LOT MORE = $$$

    I would encourage all members of the RDF to join RDFRA, find out who the committee are in your unit and tell them you want to join. If there is no committee in your unit, get involved with setting it up by contacting RDFRA.

    THE MORE MEMBERS WE HAVE THE BETTER DEAL WE WILL GET.

  • #2
    Still utterly alien to me.....
    "Hello, Good Evening and Bollocks..."

    Roger Mellie

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    • #3
      Where the concept of representation for the Military may be alien to you combat logo - it works for us.
      It works to our benefit and does not and has not affected our operational capability, saying all that,
      we shouldnt have it, all the representative bodies are a testament to the fact that our senior officers have failed us- they failed and continue to fail to look after the welfare of their soldiers.
      the old saying of attain the mission and look after your men- well our senior officers have consistently achieved the mission but consistently failed to look after us.
      The only exception to this was Dave Stapleton who threatened to resign rather then accept any more cuts.
      Can you imagine Colm Mangan threatening to resign over manpower cuts
      If we had proper professional officers we wouldnt need representation.

      That Combatlogo, maybe whats alien to you.
      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
      Are full of passionate intensity.

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      • #4
        So representation doesn't affect our operational capacity? What about the Air Corps and its operational effectiveness as regards SAR? That came about as a result of PDFORRA being allowed to interfere in operations. Unfortunately once you open the Pandora's box of "representation" you get that kind of result.
        ________
        LINCOLN MKR
        Last edited by Smithy; 9 March 2011, 13:50.

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        • #5
          So representation doesn't affect our operational capacity? What about the Air Corps and its operational effectiveness as regards SAR? That came about as a result of PDFORRA being allowed to interfere in operations. Unfortunately once you open the Pandora's box of "representation" you get that kind of result.
          That's bollox. The guys who went sick in Sligo did so of their own accord & for their own reasons. PDFORRA didn't push them into it.
          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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          • #6
            Operational matters are outside the scope of representation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Operational matters are supposed to be outside the scope of representation. The aircrew wouldn't have chanced the concerted action of going "sick" if they didn't have the support of PDFORRA. The fact that the Air Corps chain of command hadn't the bottle to deal with it quickly in the first place exacerbated the situation. Representation works by nibbling away at the edges of forbidden topics. Thats the danger of it.
              ________
              Flathead Engine
              Last edited by Smithy; 9 March 2011, 13:50.

              Comment


              • #8
                The aircrew wouldn't have chanced the concerted action of going "sick" if they didn't have the support of PDFORRA
                They went sick, and as a result got redeployed. Through all this, PDFORRA did nothing as it was an operational matter. Hardly typical trade union behaviour.

                These guys, who are highly decorated professionals, were in fear of their lives. They believed that inadequate equipment was putting them at risk, when they brought this to the attention of the brass they were ignored. 11 of them then put in for pre-discharge leave, this was denied.

                So, with their lives on the line & no other option left open to them, they went sick. The only involvement PDFORRA had in Sligo was a pay claim that was withdrawn three weeks before the incident.

                Their past achievements prove they are not cowards or malingerers, all they wanted was adequate tools for the job.
                "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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