Overseas

[JAG]

MOD: Split from other.

Why not deploy units on rotation? The DF are after all supposed to be military organisations, not volunteer charities.

[warlord]

Units cant be deployed on rotation because of the contracts that people signed when they joined. Overseas service use to be on a voluntary basis so mandatory deployment was never stipulated on contracts. Nowadays its stipulated in contracts that you can be detailed for overseas.

The DF is working towards being able to deploy units overseas but this wont happen until everyone has signed off on the same contracts.

[JAG]

Come on. I was under the impression that the PDF contract was renewed, at a maximum every five years, RDF every three and Officers go where they are sent.

"Sign here, or you're a civilian" seems a simple & straightforward approach to me.

No more problem.

[jeebus]

Jag

Is it not 5 years then 21 years then every 5 until retirement? There are options for leaving during any period with (part) loss of pension and entitlements.

J

[DeV]

From 1 Jan 1994, recruits enlisted into the PDF signed a 5 year contract, with the option of extending it to a maximum of 12 years. Unless they are promoted to NCO rank. People on these contracts CAN BE ASSIGNED to go overseas, others have to volunteer.

[Groundhog]

Come on. I was under the impression that the PDF contract was renewed, at a maximum every five years, RDF every three and Officers go where they are sent.

"Sign here, or you're a civilian" seems a simple & straightforward approach to me.

No more problem.

Post 1994 enlistees are signed on every 5 years. Prior to that it was every 3 years up to 12 years then 9 years, taking you to 21 years service and thereafter every 2 years until mandatory retirement/death/boredom. But that isn't the problem. When you sign the dotted line at the age of 17 or 18 you do so under specific Terms of Service which cannot be renegotiated. Therefore pre-1994 enlistees cannot be detailed for a peace enforcement mission and so on. Like wise the new pension arrangements only apply to people who enlist after the beginning of this year. And we didn't invent the system. The army probably got a bunch of solicitors to come up with the simplest possible system.:D

[JAG]

GH, those solicitors must have been heavily bribed by PDFORRA.

And EVERYTHING can be renegotiated. Especially if the alternative tot he renegotiation/renewal of contract (which has I understand been recently litigated, and proved to be entirely at the discretion of the DF) is to be a civilian.

The problem, once again, is that there is no will and therefore no way.

How are the bodies allowed to remain privates AND in the army for ten years anyway?

[trellheim]

No, this is incorrect.

The old enlistment says that you must volunteer.

This is catered for in o/seas deployments by the Defence act that authorises the deployment : for example -

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/b...002/b2002d.pdf

[JAG]

It is not difficult to change laws, where the will exists. And the offer in writing referred to in that Act could be incorporated into the new contract being offered.

Where the offering of a renewal of a contract is entirely at the discretion of one party, as it is in the case of PDF/RDF renewals, then the terms of the new contract may be dictated.

Military units train as units. It's silly to have to break up and reform units for every overseas deployment- you lose value gained from units having previously trained as units. Think about it- you get thrown in to a new grouping for four weeks: is the new grouping being deployed after that four weeks anywhere near as efficient and integrated as the one you just came from, and where most people have been training as a unit in that grouping for at least a year.

I doubt it.

It's not a social club. MILITARY. Not a social club.

[DeV]

But if you include personnel on courses & overseas, you will find no unit is at permitted strength (which is 1000 less than establishment since the last cuts, over the whole DF).

[Bravo20]

The DF has been moving to this over the past years. The first trial of this was the East Timor mission where the Recce Pln usually came from 1 Bn.

They have now moved to designating Bdes to provide complete units. While I'm sure the requirement to "volunteer" if you are pre 95 is a factor in being able to send complete units, you also have other logistical reasons such as the fact that units are under strength in a lot of cases and there are stricter medical and fitness requirements for some overseas missions.

You've got to remember we only have 10,000 soldiers in the Army and they are spread over a wide geographical area, who takes over the security of their AO when a complete units goes overseas?

[andy]

On the same History channel program I mentioned in the ranges thread, one of the things it discussed was about P.T.S.D.

It noted that in Vietnam most of the US troops were not deployed in units. Most soldiers didnt know anyone on the plane they went over on, and when they got there they all split up and went to different bases around the country, to fill in the wounded or dead.

The US army came to the conclusion that having troops deployed like this is likely to greatly increase the risk of P.T.S.D.

One of the major findings was to train deploy and bring back units together. A major aspect in preventing P.T.S.D is to have a debrief after the mission where soliders can talk about any incident they have witnessed, keeping in touch with soliders from the same unit when they return home, even if they left the armed forces. It increased their odds of living a normal live afterwards significantly.

I think the DF had a number of P.T.S.D cases in the Lebanon, which could have been prevented if troops were deployed as units which they already serve and train in.

[barry sheehan]

new recruits to the pdf dont sign on every five years.when you join up you sign on for five .if you have suficient courses,overseas trips and good fitness and conduct ratings you can re up for four years .after thata private can only sign up for three years(conditions as above)bringing him/her up to a max of twelve years.at present only an nco can extend past 12 up to 21.if you want to get past 21 up to retirement age you have to be minimum a cq.
pdforra are trying to chnge the privates signing on conditions to allow them to extend past 12 .this is because a large proportion of the forces are in that bracket,and there arent enough people to replace skilled privates such as drivers,medics,engineers etc.