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  • #16
    I just told you why: see previous posts. While I do agree with most of what you're saying and see your reasoning behind it I still think an hour in the mess might have more of a positive effect on the platoon than the opposite. My reasons for allowing them to the mess arent simply to allow them to let their hair down and get hammered, theres method in my madness!

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    • #17
      Very few instructors are stupid enough to fall for that.

      I know this is gonna stir a hornets nest but I see alot of different RDF units while on there camps and from what I've seen the standard of your NCO's isn't worth mentioning. I'm not saying all RDF NCO's are the same, I've met some fine RDF NCO's but on the whole there an embarassment. I will admit that the same applies to alot of PDF NCO's aswell.
      Death before Dishonour.

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      • #18
        Im only a 2-star, so I'm not going to say anything bad about NCO's. But I can say my ones are very good. Quite a few in my company are instructors on the POTs course.
        "I have never accepted what many people have kindly said, namely that I inspired the Nation. It was the nation and the race dwelling around the globe that had the lion heart. I had the luck to be called upon to give the roar"
        - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech Nov. 1954.

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        • #19
          I've met some fine RDF NCO's but on the whole there an embarassment. I will admit that the same applies to alot of PDF NCO's aswell.

          Well if the same applies across the board (PDF & RDF) why are you bringing it up in an RDF debate/converation? And Im highly insulted that you think on the whole RDF NCOs are an embarrassment. I dont know what Battalions you have had dealings with, maybe you just drew the short straw but I can assure you the majorety in my company are up to scratch!

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          • #20
            gone off da point of wether camps in dif battalions r harder!I heard some western ones r off from after dinner,allowed leave barracks,and stumble in at any time!

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            • #21
              Queenie i wasnt applying the same across the board for PDF, there is a marked difference between standards in the PDF and RDF,but that not is to say that if a RDF candidate got the same training as a PDF counterpart he/she would be any less capable.

              The standard of your NCO's stems from the training they are required to do, training which i believe in my own personal opinion is miserably short of inadequate when it comes to ordering people into a situation where they may not survive.

              Queenie I'll admit that my choice of words may not bode well for personal in the RDF but you can believe that they dont bode well for PDF members either. I dont do politics!!!! and because of that my career doesnt look so good because of the amount of people I've failed in their appointments.

              The standard of your NCO's has more to do with the amount of training you's get rather than the attitude of the individual. No matter how hard you try, you'll always get stuck with an a**hole, whether PDF or RDF but after so many weeks a PDF member realises that he needs to adjust his attitude or else his mates will adjust it for him.
              Death before Dishonour.

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              • #22
                Another reason for not allowing Recruits drink is that many of them will be under 18. Imposing a blanket ban covers those who run the bar,legally.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #23
                  I heard some western ones r off from after dinner,allowed leave barracks,and stumble in at any time!
                  Goldie, you're western brigade aren't you? What are the training days like in your recruit camps?
                  "I have never accepted what many people have kindly said, namely that I inspired the Nation. It was the nation and the race dwelling around the globe that had the lion heart. I had the luck to be called upon to give the roar"
                  - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech Nov. 1954.

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                  • #24
                    I thought that my recruit camp was going to be very difficult, not to say that it wasn't difficult. We were allowed into the mess on the second or third night but we had to work hard in training to get in. Even when we were in there we weren't allowed to have alcohol. I think it was only on the last night when they said that anybody who was over 18 could have a drink.
                    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

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                    • #25
                      Some units have taken to the idea of having recruit camp as a day course only. at the end of the training day,the recruits are driven home,to sleep in their own beds. Are we moving backwards? Sure it is logistically simpler,but the standard of recruit at the end of this week leaves a lot to be desired,and you are often working to the schedule of those providing the transport.
                      Have many units this method in place?
                      Fail to prepare....prepare to FAIL!

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                      • #26
                        Lack of available, or sufficient, accommodation, would be a mitigating factor in
                        carrying out a camp of this kind. Mind you, I would tend to agree with you
                        about not having them in the same location for the week/fortnight, etc.
                        "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                        • #27
                          The harder your recruit camp is the easier you find it when you do a career course, eg Pot NCOs Cse.

                          On my recruit camp, we finished up about 9 / 10 o'clock, after that we did our ironing etc, and had up to 4 billet inspections per night.

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                          • #28
                            I started recruit training afresh three times.

                            Once when I joined (only recruit in Coy)
                            Once on camp about four months later (two female recruits were snared just before camp- recruit platoon numbered three!)
                            And again on recruit camp. About three months later.

                            Also did (a little) recruit training when I changed units, and was (briefly) with infantry recruits before the POTs.

                            Never saw the same method used twice, is all I can say.
                            Take these men and women for your example.
                            Like them, remember that posterity can only
                            be for the free; that freedom is the sure
                            possession of those who have the
                            courage to defend it.
                            ***************
                            Liberty is being free from the things we don't like in order to be slaves of the things we do like.
                            ***************
                            If you're not ready to die for it, put the word freedom out of your vocabulary.

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                            • #29
                              having seen the recruits of my btn on their recruit camp getting pissed, i would be of the opinion that they shouldnt be allowed drink.
                              ncos werent as strict as they should have been
                              "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

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                              • #30
                                The biggest problem is,once they are drunk,there is very little you can do with them,apart from tell them to go to bed.
                                If they get stroppy and refuse(as one individual did,on the final night) all you can do is hope he does not do himself,others or others property any harm.

                                Hardly an ideal situation,which is given the not as being "one of those things" in this country,and the RDF.


                                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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