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  • Western Commando
    Guest replied
    You obviously didn't go to the same university as I did!
    Maybe I should have! Seriously though, people using the sterotype of students as the ultimate in laziness irritates me.

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  • Guest
    Guest

  • Western Commando
    Guest replied
    Taking the average student layabout who has probably never worked more than a part time job in his life
    Most student layabouts I know spend between 15 and 40 hours a week in lectures, then whatever time is needed to complete essays, projects, assignments etc, and then lots of “spare” time is spent behind a counter somewhere earning rent, cost of books and fees. Summers spent on a building site – real soft work. Personally I find any public servant, current or otherwise, (with the exception of some of the health service), using the term layabout a bit laughable.

    As for training recruits for 17 out of 24 hours – pointless to argue this one. Its obliviously suggested by people who have never trained RDF recruits. Try it and see what happens.

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  • trellheim
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher

  • trellheim
    replied
    "You have to remember they're recruits you have break them in reasonably to army life."

    No ... instead of 'reasonably' I would say 'properly' .

    It's down to proper management of the time and keeping morale up, which apart from completing the mission are very very important things.

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  • Guest
    Guest

  • Steve
    Guest replied
    If you start putting recruits on 17 hour days they're not going to take in what your trying to teaching them. They're also going to start loosing stuff as soon as it's handed out to them. You have to remember they're recruits you have break them in reasonably to army life.
    I disagree. You're underestimating the workload that people can be put under. I've seen and done it myself for alot longer than 2 weeks. You'd be amazed what even the most unlikely of people can do if they just stop whining and get their head down.
    Guest
    Guest
    Last edited by Guest; 17 August 2004, 04:40.

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  • Roger McGee
    replied
    "If someone can't sustained 17 hr days for as short a period as 2 weeks then personally I don't know if i'd want them serving beside me in any capacity."

    If you start putting recruits on 17 hour days they're not going to take in what your trying to teaching them. They're also going to start loosing stuff as soon as it's handed out to them. You have to remember they're recruits you have break them in reasonably to army life.

    The only situtation I can see that warrants a 17hr+ day is where your doing tacticle training where your trying to improve endurance and test your troops under stress. What's the saying (Train Hard Fight Easy).

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  • Groundhog
    Chief of the Diet Tribe

  • Groundhog
    replied
    So you're advocating working troops for 17 hours out of 24?

    Cushy bastard.:D

    Did you cover Labour laws and the maximum working hours when you were in lawer school?

    They don't apply to the DF. Can't have lads clocking out of the trenches at 1700.

    Yes..We called it SUB, and OVERTIME

    Oh yes. I'm all for that.:D

    Lads you all have a point. Lots of RDF types see camp as an excuse to do a bit of peer bonding and go on the tear for a week or two. Realistically speaking, if the purpose is to turn out a functioning reserve, the RDF is trying to turn out in a few weeks, the same product that takes months in the PDF. In which case it's nose to the grindstone for the couple of weeks military training.

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  • Guest
    Guest

  • Steve
    Guest replied
    Taking the average student layabout who has probably never worked more than a part time job in his life and imposing a 17 hour day on him,no matter how motivated he is,will probably not see his return after recruit training. Even the PDF are taking a softly softly approach to new recruits for the initial weeks of training. However imposing the same hours on a person on a Pots course is a different situation..they know what to expect,and they are willing to put up with the extra training,for the required end result..STRIPES(Power trip).
    If someone can't sustained 17 hr days for as short a period as 2 weeks then personally I don't know if i'd want them serving beside me in any capacity. It only requires a basic level of determination afterall.

    You don't need to be training for the full 17 hours, but the recruits should be kept working (i.e. personal admin) for the full period of the day when they're not training. Most armies in the world work their recruits who come straight out of civvie street this hard.

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  • ForegoneReality

  • ForegoneReality
    replied
    Re: [MOD: Split from Recruit Camp Thread.]

    Originally posted by JAG
    Alcohol is required for socialising why?
    My thoughts exactly..

    Leave a comment:

  • Guest
    Guest

  • sparks
    Guest replied
    "R&R has a tremendous value; some people put too much emphasis on it."

    you hit the nail on the head trellheim.

    IMHO recruits should be allowed in the mess to get mars bars and soft drinks but not to stay in the mess more than 15 mins, no booze at all until the last night and then at the course commanders dicretion ie its a reward for a hard weeks work.

    NCOs should not abuse the mess as its leads to poor instruction the following day.

    The mess should be seen as a privilege and one that can revoked if abused.

    Leave a comment:

  • trellheim
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher

  • trellheim
    replied
    Him in charge has certain objectives.

    One of which is to complete the training.

    To do this, all 24 hours in every day belong to the guy in charge.

    How he spends these is up to him. Rest is a judgment call; normally it's an easy one, sometimes it's not.

    A spotty 17 year old(normally ) needs a hard shock. They also need to know how to do a stag and all sorts of other tiring things that they would not normally do. They must be able to do these stag duties without the constant eye of the commander [ i.e. out in an OP for example ] . If you get these habits in early it works out better later.

    Fatigue management.

    If you manage it right, you can get far more done than you think. But you must keep an eye on the troops.

    R&R has a tremendous value; some people put too much emphasis on it.

    Leave a comment:

  • The Joker
    Lt Colonel

  • The Joker
    replied
    Even while on the POTS course we got a day off. Which was well deserved ill have you know. We also got one lecture a day to brreak it up, which was nice when you are doing around 15 section attacks a day for 7 days.
    Oh yeah, and they let us into the mess during the 2 weeks. They were showing us the important of resting the troops. Best lesson I ever had.

    Leave a comment:


  • JAG
    replied
    Training from 07-00 to 23-59 doesn't necessarily mean shouting and screaming and marching all day. Neither does training need to be unpleasant.

    Trainign videos? Adventure training? Building team spirit?

    Leave a comment:

  • Goldie fish
    Tim Horgan

  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Originally posted by JAG
    I'm sure you got some shitty jobs and hours when you were a garda?
    Yes..We called it SUB, and OVERTIME



    FMolloy, yes I would advocate working troops 17 hours out of 27 for all of seven days. If it's a two week camp, a half day could be considered. Maximum outcomes from scarce resources are the name of the game, and if this kind of training schedule is ok for 14 days on a POts cse, why is it somehow objectionable for everyone else for seven days?
    Taking the average student layabout who has probably never worked more than a part time job in his life and imposing a 17 hour day on him,no matter how motivated he is,will probably not see his return after recruit training. Even the PDF are taking a softly softly approach to new recruits for the initial weeks of training. However imposing the same hours on a person on a Pots course is a different situation..they know what to expect,and they are willing to put up with the extra training,for the required end result..STRIPES(Power trip).

    Leave a comment:

  • silverside
    Corporal

  • silverside
    replied
    JAG even on my pots course i didnt work 17 hours out of 24 for 14 days solid. What I am saying is that the mind and body absorb things better if they have a bit of variety. This may mean a game of footy in the evening, an evening in the mess, whatever. I remember the whole course breaking into a fit of giggles for no reason (pln cdr included), a sign of nerves/tiredness/whatever. Nobody is arguing for being out on the beer but one or two pints can help you unwind.

    In civilian life if I have an important meeting or important game, I will make sure I am well rested so that I am at peak performance. I don't see why the DF should be that different. Exercises of course are a different matter. But we also realise that people are giving up holidays to train with the DF and want them to come back.

    If training time is in such short supply, put on another training weekend during the year.

    Leave a comment:


  • JAG
    replied
    Goldie, Labour Laws don't apply to the Defence Forces. Which is why a soldier can be ordered, say, to spend three days in an OP somewhere near the border in the pissing rain watching someone's house. I just made that up, but I'm sure it rings true with a couple of the PDF types on this board. I'm sure you got some shitty jobs and hours when you were a garda?

    Kermit, agreed if the syllabus is taught within the time frame, there is no problem with R&R (Also agreed I learned a whole lot of shite from my limited four years of experience as a part time soldier- that's why I left). But it's a pretty big syllabus, and a week is a very small amount of time. Would you suppose that a week is long enough to teach someone how to be a soldier? Have you never bitched about lack of training time. Have you bitched about it in the mess.

    FMolloy, yes I would advocate working troops 17 hours out of 27 for all of seven days. If it's a two week camp, a half day could be considered. Maximum outcomes from scarce resources are the name of the game, and if this kind of training schedule is ok for 14 days on a POts cse, why is it somehow objectionable for everyone else for seven days?

    Is it so important to everyone that getting pissed for a week on camp is an option? And if so, who's surprised if PDF treat with a lack of respect?

    Leave a comment:

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