Shaving In The D.f

[MORTAR DAN]

Just a question I would like to ask to group
It concerns shaving within the Defence Forces.
I know it comes for the brits that we shave; it’s got to do with hygiene.
I understand that, but shaving while on the ground (operation/exercise) I do not understand.
My reason is
You shave and cut yourself which is very common even at home. So you create an open wound and dirt and camo cream can get into it causing an infection and making you non-affective to operations.

Can anyone else in the group understand what I am trying to shave?
I asked this question once to a person well above my rank and I was told that it had to do with appearance and the way the public seen us.
HELLO we smell and look like homeless people as it is after 3 days on the ground so what shaving going to improve is.




A SOLDIER THAT DOES NOT CRIB IS NOT A SOLDIERS
So says the BOSS. :tri:

[hptmurphy]

Bring an electric......its biased anyway...most women don't hace to shave while engaged in tactics!

[bulldemboots!]

Someone told me its to do with the seal on the respirator (gas mask). Apparently having a beard can break the seal.

[eileen]

yeah but most women have to keep their hair tidy,which after a few hours is like tryin to untangle a whin bush.i know its to do with discipline but seems like nitpickin to me when youve more important things to think about

[Barndoor]

Thats true, the military purpose for shaving in the field is supposedly because depending on how much growth up have, anything from two to three days growth can stop your mask from making a proper seal. Having said that though, i have seen documentaries on tv that show members of the SAS with relatively large beards on them taking off their masks after doing training involving CS gas and respirators. I imagine these type of respirators used for hostage rescue purposes probably differ in some way to the standard infantryman's type, they are definitly a different design with a small filter angled to the left.

[on_ready_to_fire]

DAN,
Here is the deal:

You shave on the ground for a number of different reasons.I will mention a few in a moment.

Shaving on the ground is essential.Simple as that. When you are on exercise and or conducting operations it is your duty as a soldier to maintain your body to it's heighest of standards.You neglect shaving and quite possibly you are the type of person who will adopt habits of not cleaning hands before eating rations and other routine essential hygiene on the ground, thus increases your chances of catching numerous bugs and diseases (dependent on where you are operating will increase this likelihood).And then you become a casualty and of no more use to the section/pln/coy/bn whatever formation you were an integral part of, up until the point you decided to become lazy and not shave, clean etc etc.

If you are operating in an area where the N.B.C threat is high, it is essential that you shave, so as when you hear your buddy on NBC sentry shouting "GAS GAS GAS" or clanging his messtins (old alarm system!!) you are putting that mask on your face as quick as humanely possible. Now if you have not shaved in the last 2 to 3 days the stubble which is popping out of your face is going to interfere with the seal the mask makes with your face itself.Then that nasty SARIN or whatever (chem/bio agent) is gonna seep into the mask and into your body, and do horrible nasty stuff to your internal nervous system and other vital body organs.And now you are dead or horribly injured and again a casualty with the same effects on the unit you are operating with.I have no personal expierence in observing this (well only with C.S) but seeing your buddy coughing up his lungs through his nostrils would be bad for morale I would imagine.

Now reasons for not shaving might be open to units who maybe carrying out LRRP (long range recce) or OP work not gonna say more on that. They may due to nature of the mission at hand be operating close to the EN etc. they have a reason for not shaving, they need a bad smell or a non-fresh smell because they don't want to draw attention from cows, sheep other animals etc. and want to obtain a more "natural" presence. They may have other reasons for not shaving also, such as preserving water supplies if they cannot get resupply, local source not viable.

Dan this is a rushed post and I'm not trying to get at you with the lazy slant I'm a newbie guy to this forum! But I know where you are coming from, in a trench/patrol harbour shaving your face going why?what's the point to this? But it is so so so essential to maintain hygiene in the field, staying healthy and being ready to continue with operations.

And it does not come from the Brits either, it's just common sense!And only 3 days on the ground!!Cushy

[MORTAR DAN]

Ok. I Will Give Uou A Example.
Your On Patrol In Liberia From Anything To 9 Days With Mowags, Your Head Is Sticking Out Of The Hatch All Day Getting Dirt And Dust Blowing Into Your Newly Shaved Face (hello Infection)
And As For Lazyiness Thats Crap Every Exercise And Operation I Have Being On Nobody Shaves Until High Ranking Officers Come On The Ground.
The Gas Mask Think May Be True But Please There Is No Seal On The Ones That Are Issued At The Moment.
Dont Get Me Wrong Im Not Bitching Just Cribbin

So Say It The Boss

[on_ready_to_fire]

Dan you know what your right,
It's just all other professional armies worldwide are wrong.
And on the point of no-one shaves until Senior officer's come around!Now that my friend is crap, there is a prime example of bad leadership on both junior officers and N.C.O's, ot conducting checks of the troops to ensure they are keeping themselves and their bodies clean and operationally effective.And that is a very VERY unprofessional attitude to have as well as being damn stupid.

Shaving on Patrol in Liberia is being carried out Dan. (No infections thus far)

No seals on gas masks being issued, Dan again thats Mammoth poo , yes they do and are working correctly except for ones that are broken maybe???Try pulling the cord to tighten the mask on your head, put hand under filter: taaaaadaaaa a tight seal.

[Bam Bam]

To be honest I don't shave on the ground either, yes I denote time to brush teeth and clean my hands with antiseptic wipes, and if I was on the ground longer then 3 days I would shave.

I don't shave because I don't have the time.
In a patrol harbour when you're not eating, on stag, or on a patrol you should be asleep.

As for the gas mask arguement, I've not been issued one, so I've no seal to worry about.

However, if I go on the ground daily and end up back indoors in camp at the end of the day, to go out again the next day of course I'd shave.

[MORTAR DAN]

Do You Know What You Are Right My Friend I Was Wrong I Sorry From Mistakes. But On The 90 Bn. We Never Shaved On The Groud Cant Tell You About The 91 Bn. And Your Right We Had No Infections.
My Mate Is Out There At The Moment And He Says That There Are About 20 Operatioal People Not Shaving At The Moment Out There At The Mooment. So Again I Am Sorry I Am Wrong .

[apod]

CBRN(nbc) IS the reason you shave on the ground.The brit sf,s use a special cream designed for the royal navy to form a seal if you have a beard.Never heard of us using it though.
As for electic razors.Great idea if you are on an overt patrol,such as peace enforcement.Major bad idea if you are on a tactical exercise where noise can compromise your patrol harbour.
Another good reason to shave/wash on exercise is morale.If it is not a covert op/patrol where you cant.It is great to get rid of the grime and dirt that builds up.Makes you feel human again.Problem with our exercises is that they are too short usually.After four to five days hygiene does become an issue especially with troops living in close confines,such as with apc ops.

[Docman]

The reason for special force not shaving and cutting their hair is for reason or fitting in with the local population. In afghanistan, SF soldiers have not shaven as Islamic culture in Afghanistan values beards. Since SF more regularly deal with the local populace, they try to fit in.

For example, it is easy to see soldiers walking around.... clean shaven, tight haircuts etc. SF forces try to blend in better.

[DeV]

Shaving has the added advantage of being a good way of removing the previous days camo cream before you reapply it.

[on_ready_to_fire]

"Shaving has the added advantage of being a good way of removing the previous days camo cream before you reapply it."

Dev,
That's a very bad idea mate, remove cammo first with babywipe or whatever, then shave.Seen some nasty infected cuts because of shaving with cammo still on.BAD BAD idea.Don't take the lazy way.

[rod and serpent]

Thats true, the military purpose for shaving in the field is supposedly because depending on how much growth up have, anything from two to three days growth can stop your mask from making a proper seal. Having said that though, i have seen documentaries on tv that show members of the SAS with relatively large beards on them taking off their masks after doing training involving CS gas and respirators. I imagine these type of respirators used for hostage rescue purposes probably differ in some way to the standard infantryman's type, they are definitly a different design with a small filter angled to the left.

The SAS do not wear beards under their respirators, but it is not unknown for them sport beards out on ops eg Afghanistan, Iraq... Doing the hard routine on close ops.