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  • Fix bayonets!

    Myself and godie had an interesting discussion this afternoon and wondered what you lot thought of this.....

    Where does the bayonet and frog fit on the PLCE

    Years ago bayonets were used in most ceremonils and while inside churches or on diplay with the colours bayonets had a silver coloured cork affixed

    Are these still in use.

    Is there any bayonet ceremonial drill anymore....given the inherint dangers of swinging a rifle with a bayonet fixed around your body in close proximity to people on either side of you.

    Should each unit not have retained a long rifle ie 303s or FNs for ceremonial purposes as the steyr is not natuarlly suited to it.

    the facts around bayonets and would people be willing to use a pointed instrument on such a short weapon given how close in you would have to be to be effective .Given the amount of rifles in the country how come bayonets seem to be in short supply.

    Does not each weapon not have its own bayonet...this has become eveident with two units in my area having to borrow bayonets from my unit when required for range practises.

    Why is the pistol officially and ceremonially worn on the left thigh.....what are the advatanges of using the different types of pistol holsters.

    Now all the mince pies are gone and the national tradegidies have passed might you want to think about such issues.....
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  • #2
    After consulting with the manual of the PLCE(yes it exists,or did in the early 90s anyway),the frog is carried between the ammo pouch on the LHS and the large utility pouch at the rear. However this is when only one ammo pouch is worn,and the pouch on the front rhs is the small utility pouch. when wearing two ammo pouches,for whatever reason,the small utility pouch now moves to the rear LHS,but does the frog sit in front of or behind it? Also,the large utility pouch is rarely used these days..

    Has the manual or the plce assembly video(Ref 344) been updated in line with recent experience and thinking?


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    • #3
      "Does not each weapon not have its own bayonet...this has become eveident with two units in my area having to borrow bayonets from my unit when required for range practises"

      Unlike the FN Bayonets, the steyr bayonets aren't numbered and linked to a particular rifle. Still I would have thought that units would be issued with equal number of bayonets as rifles.

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      • #4
        I know of several units as well that have contacted us looking for bayonets for there APR`s. Leave the issue of which side the frog is to attached to and Ì`ll try and corner a few mates of mine.
        Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

        "Where there is no guidance the people fall, but in abundance of counselors there is victory" Proverbs 11-14
        http://munsterfireandrescue.com

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        • #5
          "Why is the pistol officially and ceremonially worn on the left thigh"

          That's where they used to carry swords, and never really got around to doing it any differently.
          .
          .
          .
          With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

          Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kermit
            Yeah they are still in use, was issued them for an exercise last year... I'm told the enemy nearly ran away when they heard the command to Fix Bayonets!
            .....

            This belongs in the urban myth department


            the swords and pistols thing is self explanatory ....you ever seen a right handed person drawing a four foot sword from a scabbard attached to his right hip......using his right hand!
            In the days of when guys were putting cocked pistols into holsters it was felt some what safer when said pistol was drawn to move it away from the body...instead of shooting yourself in the leg.


            Point to note certain non cermonial renderings will show a '44 pattern web belt adadpted to carry holster on right hip ..hanging from belt and not fixed to....I assume to allow weapon to sit on hip while seated in vehicle.....and still acessible.
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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            • #7
              No the plce manual/video has not been updated.Cefo layout was meant for an atcp army.No longer the case.the large utility pouch is actually the respirator haversack and is only worn if there is an nbc threat.The frog is worn directly behind the left ammo pouch on front of the waterbottle pouch.it never moves as you fix bayonet with your left hand.(unless you are a southpaw shooter of course)
              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by hptmurphy
                Given the amount of rifles in the country how come bayonets seem to be in short supply.

                Does not each weapon not have its own bayonet...
                as Bravo stated, there not matched with the rifles, plus there useless.... they break too easy, ask anyone who's done Bayonet training!
                Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

                http://www.iamawesome.com/

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                • #9
                  never did much with the bayonets you may notice that the steyr has a bayonet lug attached with an allen key this is because the bayonet is not used on the austrian version they see them as inhumane they get a nice flash suppressor instead ,
                  hard to get them from stores at times dont think people want the hassle of a nice stab wound and seeing some of the muppets i have met in the rdf i must agree , the styer is a bit short for drill with bayonet fixed the guy on your right better hope you keep your dressing !!

                  the old "fix bayonets" deliverd at the right time such as after the falling plates team fail to hit half their targets , or on night tactics when about to be overun or over runing the enemy pos ( makes your enemy stop and think for that vital secound ) but it must be deliveried in your best british sgt majors voice a-la Zulu
                  as for there place in the moderen army well worth the read
                  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/papers/bayonet.htm
                  "take a look to the sky right before you die, its the last time you will"

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                  • #10
                    ah yest Mr Nigel green the wonderful colour sergeant Bourne.....

                    I was really wondering as with the the FN fix bayonets involved dislocation of the wrist ...inverting the frog...and loosing the tip of the thub....Fix.....wait for it ....bayonets ...feel for it don't look down....

                    and the unfixing of bayonets with the soldier in question impaling the palm of the left hand down to the flash eliminator...

                    Do such actions take place with the steyr...the manual makes no mention of drill...so is there a drill mnaual dedicated to the subject or do you just arrive on parade with the thing in place.........as reagarding the steyr bayonet its elf I reckon you have a better chance of inflicting a wound on a guy using a Mach 3 razor.......

                    Please sergeant can it be my turn to play with the knifey thing today...Sorry son we don't have enough to go around...said in My best Colour sergeant Bourne voice.......
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #11
                      I need a new keyboard...you need a hammer to get the keys on this thing to register.......
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • #12
                        "They don't like it up 'em!"

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                        • #13
                          Bayonets went out of ceremonial drill about 2 or 3 years ago. People kept trying to impale themselves on them. Every rifle comes complete with a bayonet which is kept locked away from souvenir collectors and people with penis envy. The bayonet charge, like the cavalry charge, is history.
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                          Say NO to violence against Women

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                          red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Groundhog
                            Bayonets went out of ceremonial drill about 2 or 3 years ago. People kept trying to impale themselves on them. Every rifle comes complete with a bayonet which is kept locked away from souvenir collectors and people with penis envy. The bayonet charge, like the cavalry charge, is history.
                            apparently some Scottish unit in Iraq fixed bayonets a while back - I guess the insurgents don't like it up 'em, as Cpl Jones would say.

                            For riot control situations, the sight of a bayonet can have a very sobering effect.
                            "Hello, Good Evening and Bollocks..."

                            Roger Mellie

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                            • #15
                              curiosty is satisfied....I really don't know why I don't just email Gh on such matters.....
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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