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  • Incomprehensible!

    I find it incomprehensible that people come to this forum to ask questions on the very basics of military training. i.e. how to carry out the halt on the march.

    Given that these people claim to have some form of training and even claim to be a private ,two star in a given unit.

    These are the basics of all military training and i wonder what actually did these people do for their recruit training. I don't expect everyone to be brilliant over night but come on .....the basics lads!
    Its is a slur on the training NCOs and a unit on the whole that this can happen. If people can not carry out the basics or even claim to have forgotten them in a very short period of time it begs the question what the program of training was .

    I've no objection to answering questions on aspects of training that are not regularly covered or may not be covered in depth by some units as they may not have the same relevance as in other units.....but having to read statements such as this is unbelieveable.

    If this basic information cannot be retained even after six months what else has been forgotten.The person asking the question then has the gall to slag of those who have to train the very people who are supposedly the future of the RDF.

    I suppose I can be thankful that he is not a member of my unit but on a whole it reflects very badly on the entire RDF.
    Covid 19 is not over's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  • #2
    meh! thats the way it is. Don't beat yourself up.
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.


    • #3
      hptmurphy, I think your criticism is unfair. Given your comments about having 20 years service I think you've forgotten what its like to be a junior soldier. FYI, I did my basic training at night parades, attended an Easter camp and haven’t really done much since as I did a J1 over the summer and spent last semester in Belgium. Personally, I find foot drill difficult - not that I'm stupid, but the intricacies of drill seem to be tricky. On the matter of the rifle I kept my notes and was able to refresh myself, but I presume that I will undergo refresher training before firing again. But then, that’s only me trying to hide my unacceptable lack of foot drill proficiency behind excuses.

      However, you are one hundred percent right on everything and I apologise for daring to think that my question was worthy of an answer. I always assumed that the reason the Defence Forces did so much training was to enable people to remember and to keep their skills up to scratch but I’m obliviously well off the mark there. Incidentally, when I was wasting time on my badly planned and executed recruit camp I saw Regular soldiers doing footdrill every morning and evening. These were fully trained PDF soldiers, and assuming they had carried out training recruit as well, what were they doing on the square? Sorry, sorry, another stupid question.

      You seem confused about my request – I didn’t ask you specifically, I merely put out a general query about something I couldn’t quite remember. You seem to be quite the expert about the RDF and quite willing to offer advice, but only on really difficult things. That’s a healthy attitude for any instructor and I’m sure you have queues of anxious soldiers lining up with requests for advice and assistance.

      Finally, I’m glad that you pointed out the deficiencies in the training programme I completed. The original person who was meant to be instructing us was given something else to do and so most of my training was done by a Regular Cpl. If I see him again I’ll make sure to point out that an RDF Sergeant posting on an internet forum has problems with his training skills and I’m sure he’ll try harder in the future, if indeed he has a future given this damning appraisal by a 20 year veteran of the FCA. Wow – 20 years – that’s about 18 months in the real army.

      Hptmurphy, let me assure you that if you or someone like you had trained me as a recruit I wouldn’t be worried about my footdrill, or indeed about my future in the RDF. I think it’s fair to say, and I mean this very sincerely, that a day of your knowledge, good humour and patience would have been enough RDF training to do me for a lifetime.

      I’m going now to have a long think about the matters you raised.

      Thanks Sergeant.


      • #4
        Good to see that PDF NCOs are still teaching recruits to have respect for NCOs.....not

        Quite frankly, foot drill is about the simplest thing you do in the RDF. It should require exactly zero thinking - thus the "drill" part. After being taught it, it should be automatic. You should be able to take a month out, come back and still do your drill exactly as you were taught. If you can't remember foot drill then I'd hesitate to trust you with a SINCGARS, a rifle, or anything else with more than 2 parts.


        • #5
          I don't come here to carry my rank......and I will criticize anybody I feel fit to do so ...if it is merited.

          Your sarcasm belittles your underachievements given that 90% of the people who take part in RDF training do it in the same time frame as you have indicated ...only difference is that they manage to retain it.

          I did not call you stupid and if you read my post you will find that it is your inability to retain basic information that belittles your training NCO and not me.

          As for trying to belittle my service can't blame the RDF for my short commings as I actually served with the Naval service for some years before joining the FCA so you could say that I was professionally trained and have fair reason to know what I am talking about.
          FYI the drilling of trained men is not a method of keeping them current in footdrill ...its is actually a discipline that requires practise,

          If you found the basics of foot drill tricky ...the rest of recruit training must have equated to rocket science.

          If I had you as a recruit you learning the stad or halt on the march would not have been an issue as probably well before this I would have identified your inadequacies and offered you some friendly advice about your future service in the RDF.

          As for being patient ,good humoured and understanding ...I normally am ....but I don't tolerate fools.

          Now that we assassinated each others charachter I hope you will return to the unit from which you have publicy disgraced by asking idiotic questions and get on with learning the rest of the footdrill manual
          Covid 19 is not over's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe


          • #6
            I'd have to agree with hpt here. If I had missed such a large chunk of training, I would request to be back-platooned. If you can't stop on the march, I can safely assume you forgot safetys on the steyr. Why not ask a friend from your unit to give you a refresher lesson instead of looking for training over the internet.
            "I have never accepted what many people have kindly said, namely that I inspired the Nation. It was the nation and the race dwelling around the globe that had the lion heart. I had the luck to be called upon to give the roar"
            - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech Nov. 1954.


            • #7
              I can see both sides of the argument here & all i can say is that in my four years of being in the RDF its not the privates that have a problem with foot drill its a lot of the NCO's (not all) so hptmurphy sorry for using cliches but before you start blaming the monkey(no dis respect Goldeneye) look at the organ grinder. And fair play to ya Jimmy C for giving a sensible answer which doesn't come across as condesending as hptmurphy. Goldeneye give it time and it will all come together and if that doesnt work transfer to another unit where there Method Of Instruction on foot drill is better put and where decent NCO's will help you in developing your foot drills and military knoledge. Trust me they're out there.
              You need people like me.So you can point your finger and say 'Thats him thats the bad guy'.


              • #8
                Originally posted by Goldeneye
                I find foot drill difficult - not that I'm stupid, but the intricacies of drill seem to be tricky.

                Goldeneye would you consider talking to a n.c.o. from your own unit
                and asking him/her for some help on this matter.

                As for the matter of poor training I believe that this is every bodys problem knot just ncos.
                I am lucky i am in a unit with a lot of good toopers and ncos.There are alot of good ncos out there willing to teach you.Foot drill cannot be learned on the internet but only on the square keep on trying youll get in the end good luck.
                Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.


                • #9
                  I have to laugh at this thread tbh, you have people over on the PNCO thread telling people to adapt and improvise, so what did this chap do? rather than turn up at a camp and look like a complete muppet he took the time to find this site, register, wait for his registration email and complete his registration and finally post his question.

                  So its not exactly the most difficult question in the world to answer yet members launch into a blistering attack, all of a sudden he cant do SP's, he should ask to be back platooned, since when did G1's make decisions about their training? Do you not think that his own unit might recongise that he hasnt been around for while and give him the training they feel best suited to him. Failing that he should ask for a tranfer to find a unit with better MOI and have decent NCO's, pray tell where are these perfect units? Where can I find a list of them? What if his home unit is the 15Bn in Caherciveen the nearest other units are in Cork or Limerick.

                  but perhaps I'm just a bitter old barrack rat....
                  You're even dumber than I tell people

                  You might have been infected but you never were a bore


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Goldeneye
                    I did a J1 over the summer and spent last semester in Belgium.
                    In that case you had better check you haven't been posted non-effective.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DeV
                      In that case you had better check you haven't been posted non-effective.
                      I strongly suspect that I remain on the effective strength of a certain Dublin unit years later.

                      So I don't think Goldeneye is too much at risk of being noneffective just because he missed six months or so. Missing six months and coming up three weeks before camp is NORMAL, or at least was quite recently.
                      Last edited by JAG; 13 April 2005, 11:18.
                      Take these men and women for your example.
                      Like them, remember that posterity can only
                      be for the free; that freedom is the sure
                      possession of those who have the
                      courage to defend it.
                      Liberty is being free from the things we don't like in order to be slaves of the things we do like.
                      If you're not ready to die for it, put the word freedom out of your vocabulary.


                      • #12
                        I can still remember my foot/arms drill, occasionally demonstrate it as a 'party piece' for my US colleagues. Problem is I sometimes can't recall the words of command.

                        Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!


                        • #13
                          My problem is not blurting out commands 'As Gaelige' over here. I've done it once don't think people noticed, they probably thought I was choking. I have to concentrate on that and not to give every command on the left foot.
                          There may be only one time in your life when your country will call upon you and you will be the only one who can do the nasty job that has to be done -- do it or forever after there will be the taste of ashes in your mouth.


                          • #14
                            Took me a while to stop with the thigh parallel to the ground thing as well.

                            Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by California Tanker
                              I can still remember my foot/arms drill, occasionally demonstrate it as a 'party piece' for my US colleagues. Problem is I sometimes can't recall the words of command.

                              "Party Piece", eh???

                              I just bet you're the life and soul of the place !!!

                              Party on Nick !!!!!

                              And welcome home too.

                              No-one, I think, is in my tree...