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  • Personal Protective/Communications Equipment

    I have a horrible feeling I don't want to know the answer to this question, but here goes:

    Do DF personnell on tour in Liberia and eslewhere get provided with body armour (helmets, flak jackets, elbow & knee pads) for everyday use? Does the DF have any individual communications sets (radios combined with GPS locators) for operations? And are the body armour & comms sets used?

    I think I know what's coming and it's making me cringe.
    Take these men and women for your example.
    Like them, remember that posterity can only
    be for the free; that freedom is the sure
    possession of those who have the
    courage to defend it.
    ***************
    Liberty is being free from the things we don't like in order to be slaves of the things we do like.
    ***************
    If you're not ready to die for it, put the word freedom out of your vocabulary.

  • #2
    There are individual comms units, article in an cosantoir a while back. there are also flak jackets and helmets, but they are provided, im sure, depending on the level of threat in their area of operations.
    "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

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    • #3
      I dislike the term "flak Jacket" as it relates to modern body armour. The 1954 jacket as seen in Vietnam,and worn,in irish service with a green denim cover and two pockets(and a zip that never worked) is a flak jacket.
      It is nothing like the current generation of body armour that is available. In un service,Helmets are personal Issue,as is body armour,however same must be returned to HQ on return from tour of duty.

      Elbow and Knee pads? Thats a matter of personal comfort rather than actual protection really,isn't it?


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #4
        Let me rephrase that:

        Do DF pers overseas have body armour capable of stopping a 7.62mm round?

        Do they wear it every day?
        Take these men and women for your example.
        Like them, remember that posterity can only
        be for the free; that freedom is the sure
        possession of those who have the
        courage to defend it.
        ***************
        Liberty is being free from the things we don't like in order to be slaves of the things we do like.
        ***************
        If you're not ready to die for it, put the word freedom out of your vocabulary.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think any body armour could stop a 7.62mm round
          It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

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          • #6
            There isn't much that will "stop" a 7.62mm NATO. The trauma plate,if fitted,may do so,in ideal situations,but the wearer will probably suffer broken ribs. Ballistic helmets will not stop them either. If they do,the impact would break the wearers neck,so there is no point.
            They would be expected to give the wearer protection against "certain" 5.56mm and 9mm impacts,as well as shrapnel from grenades or other explosions.


            The blue bits are body armour. When they are worn is down to the prevailant security situation in the area.


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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            • #7
              Most military body armour are rated NIJ level 3a which will protect against handguns, shotguns & fragmentation. To increase the level of protection available to the wearer, most modern vests have pockets on the front & the back for plates. To stop standard 5.56mm & 7.62mm ball ammo you need a level 3 plate, to stop AP ammo you need a level 4 plate.

              The problem with plates is that they tend to be heavy - the average level 3 plate weighs around 1.5kg, a level 4 plate would be nearly double that. Bearing in mind that you have to wear 2 plates (front & back) to give full protection, you've got a lot of weight to carry. This weight will, of course, come down in time.

              I don't know what current practice is now, given the current events in Iraq, but you generally didn't wear plates unless you were in obvious danger & you didn't wear them for long.
              FMolloy
              King Monkey
              Last edited by FMolloy; 5 May 2005, 12:58.
              "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks FM.

                Does the DF have type 3/4 plates?
                Take these men and women for your example.
                Like them, remember that posterity can only
                be for the free; that freedom is the sure
                possession of those who have the
                courage to defend it.
                ***************
                Liberty is being free from the things we don't like in order to be slaves of the things we do like.
                ***************
                If you're not ready to die for it, put the word freedom out of your vocabulary.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is this not operational info???

                  The Marconi PRR (Personal Role Radio) is now used for comms within the section (at least overseas), as with British Army

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FMolloy
                    This weight will, of course, come down in time.

                    .
                    Some of the newer advanced composites and ceramics have unblieveable impact resistance for very little cost in weight terms, the problem lies in the other material properties like tensile strangth, ductility and hardness.
                    What this would mean is if you picked it up along a certain edge the plate would crack neatly down the middle. One other thing about them is the cost, when I say ching ching I mean it. They are damn expensive to make. The cost will come down eventually but at the moment not even the yanks could afford this kit.
                    Lifes a bitch, so be her pimp!

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                    • #11
                      aa
                      Troddyn
                      Corporal
                      Last edited by Troddyn; 24 November 2005, 12:08.

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                      • #12
                        Google tells me you can pick up phase 3/4 for a couple of grand- being able to proceed while not being too concerned about anything smaller than an RPG or HMG ,ust be a huge advantage.
                        Take these men and women for your example.
                        Like them, remember that posterity can only
                        be for the free; that freedom is the sure
                        possession of those who have the
                        courage to defend it.
                        ***************
                        Liberty is being free from the things we don't like in order to be slaves of the things we do like.
                        ***************
                        If you're not ready to die for it, put the word freedom out of your vocabulary.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A level 4 plate will cost you around Stg£180 in the UK.
                          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Just had a look at the website of the US Army's Natick Soldier Centre (http://www.natick.army.mil/soldier/).

                            It says the USMC's IBA vest consists of a base vest which offers protection against fragmentation & low-velocity threats and two Small Arms Protective Insert (SAPI) plates for dealing with rifle rounds. The base vest weighs around 3Kg and the plates come in at 1.8Kg each, dunno what NIJ rating the plates have.
                            FMolloy
                            King Monkey
                            Last edited by FMolloy; 5 May 2005, 18:30.
                            "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Interestingly enough, the lad who was awarded the Victoria Cross in the UK was hit in the head by a 7.62 mm round which didn't (at least that's what I took from the piece) pass through his helmet.
                              Quote from the MOD website : "During this long surge through the ambushes the vehicle was again struck by rocket-propelled grenades and small arms fire. While his head remained out of the hatch, to enable him to see the route ahead, he was directly exposed to much of this fire, and was himself hit by a 7.62mm bullet, which penetrated his helmet and remained lodged on its inner surface"
                              "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

                              Otto Von Bismark

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