Personal Protective/Communications Equipment

[JAG]

I have a horrible feeling I don't want to know the answer to this question, but here goes:

Do DF personnell on tour in Liberia and eslewhere get provided with body armour (helmets, flak jackets, elbow & knee pads) for everyday use? Does the DF have any individual communications sets (radios combined with GPS locators) for operations? And are the body armour & comms sets used?

I think I know what's coming and it's making me cringe.

[Steamy Window]

There are individual comms units, article in an cosantoir a while back. there are also flak jackets and helmets, but they are provided, im sure, depending on the level of threat in their area of operations.

[Goldie fish]

I dislike the term "flak Jacket" as it relates to modern body armour. The 1954 jacket as seen in Vietnam,and worn,in irish service with a green denim cover and two pockets(and a zip that never worked) is a flak jacket.
It is nothing like the current generation of body armour that is available. In un service,Helmets are personal Issue,as is body armour,however same must be returned to HQ on return from tour of duty.

Elbow and Knee pads? Thats a matter of personal comfort rather than actual protection really,isn't it?

[JAG]

Let me rephrase that:

Do DF pers overseas have body armour capable of stopping a 7.62mm round?

Do they wear it every day?

[Bam Bam]

I don't think any body armour could stop a 7.62mm round

[Goldie fish]

There isn't much that will "stop" a 7.62mm NATO. The trauma plate,if fitted,may do so,in ideal situations,but the wearer will probably suffer broken ribs. Ballistic helmets will not stop them either. If they do,the impact would break the wearers neck,so there is no point.
They would be expected to give the wearer protection against "certain" 5.56mm and 9mm impacts,as well as shrapnel from grenades or other explosions.


The blue bits are body armour. When they are worn is down to the prevailant security situation in the area.

[FMolloy]

Most military body armour are rated NIJ level 3a which will protect against handguns, shotguns & fragmentation. To increase the level of protection available to the wearer, most modern vests have pockets on the front & the back for plates. To stop standard 5.56mm & 7.62mm ball ammo you need a level 3 plate, to stop AP ammo you need a level 4 plate.

The problem with plates is that they tend to be heavy - the average level 3 plate weighs around 1.5kg, a level 4 plate would be nearly double that. Bearing in mind that you have to wear 2 plates (front & back) to give full protection, you've got a lot of weight to carry. This weight will, of course, come down in time.

I don't know what current practice is now, given the current events in Iraq, but you generally didn't wear plates unless you were in obvious danger & you didn't wear them for long.

[JAG]

Thanks FM.

Does the DF have type 3/4 plates?

[DeV]

Is this not operational info???

The Marconi PRR (Personal Role Radio) is now used for comms within the section (at least overseas), as with British Army

[Bosco]

This weight will, of course, come down in time.

.

Some of the newer advanced composites and ceramics have unblieveable impact resistance for very little cost in weight terms, the problem lies in the other material properties like tensile strangth, ductility and hardness.
What this would mean is if you picked it up along a certain edge the plate would crack neatly down the middle. One other thing about them is the cost, when I say ching ching I mean it. They are damn expensive to make. The cost will come down eventually but at the moment not even the yanks could afford this kit.

[Troddyn]

aa

[JAG]

Google tells me you can pick up phase 3/4 for a couple of grand- being able to proceed while not being too concerned about anything smaller than an RPG or HMG ,ust be a huge advantage.

[FMolloy]

A level 4 plate will cost you around Stg£180 in the UK.

[FMolloy]

Just had a look at the website of the US Army's Natick Soldier Centre (http://www.natick.army.mil/soldier/).

It says the USMC's IBA vest consists of a base vest which offers protection against fragmentation & low-velocity threats and two Small Arms Protective Insert (SAPI) plates for dealing with rifle rounds. The base vest weighs around 3Kg and the plates come in at 1.8Kg each, dunno what NIJ rating the plates have.

[Eddie Dillon]

Interestingly enough, the lad who was awarded the Victoria Cross in the UK was hit in the head by a 7.62 mm round which didn't (at least that's what I took from the piece) pass through his helmet.
Quote from the MOD website : "During this long surge through the ambushes the vehicle was again struck by rocket-propelled grenades and small arms fire. While his head remained out of the hatch, to enable him to see the route ahead, he was directly exposed to much of this fire, and was himself hit by a 7.62mm bullet, which penetrated his helmet and remained lodged on its inner surface"