Personal Protective/Communications Equipment

[FMolloy]

An incident during PSO training got me thinking...IF I had taken out the trolls (2 Pln will know who I mean) eye with a spent cartridge, would we now have protective eyewear...?

They haven't issued them after more serious incidents, so I doubt they'd do so after a near miss.

[Steamy Window]

An incident during PSO training got me thinking...IF I had taken out the trolls (2 Pln will know who I mean) eye with a spent cartridge, would we now have protective eyewear...?

[FMolloy]

A more comprehensive evaluation of NIJ certification can be found on their site.

Link to NIJ document on body armour

[DeV]

NIJ Levels:
http://www.vestguard.com/NIJ%20levels.shtml

How body armour works:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/body-armor.htm

[mugs]

Body armour in action.
And proff that that some body armour does work.

[mugs]

Cheers!!

New body armour (such as the Interceptor Body Armour on issue to the yanks) will stop rifle rounds when used in conjunction with ceramic plates and with a human body (or similar)

Already knew this, seen a documentary on it.

[Barry]

I thought body armour and helmets didn't stop assult rife rounds, only low velocity shrapnil (Not sure on spelling)

A flak jacket will stop shrapnel. New body armour (such as the Interceptor Body Armour on issue to the yanks) will stop rifle rounds when used in conjunction with ceramic plates and with a human body (or similar) directly behind it. If it's not strapped to a body then it doesn't work properly

[mugs]

I thought body armour and helmets didn't stop assult rife rounds, only low velocity shrapnil (Not sure on spelling)

[Barry]

It showed them welding scrap metal onto Vietnam era trucks for extra armour and hanging bullet proof vests in the doors before they went through Baghdad.

.....body armour is designed to have a human body behind it. Humans are compressible. If you shoot it when it has a hard backing, or when it has no backing (ie it is hanging loose), the rounds will slice through it. You'd want to stack a few, with a sandbag (6 inches of sand will stop most rounds dead) or something similar in between them, to create effective armour (if you have enough space to do that, that is)

This particular rant inspired by http://www.theboxotruth.com/

[ex pat 007]

I had complete confidence in by interceptor vest with SAPI plates. The prone firing pos was a uncomfortable but was a great deal better than catching a round in the chest.

We were provided with Garmin "Rhino" GPS 1 per squad (section). It has a built in motorolla radio which could be used to communicate with all members of the squad provided we went to the expense of purchising motorollas. The SOP was that I (squad leader) or my two team leaders had free range to blab on the squad net and everyone could listen but joe could only put in his two cents when it was vital info needed to pass up soonest.

Knee pads and elbow pads were on issue but were generally crap, a lot of folks purchased on the economy very expensive knee pads (and wore them around their ankles like I did with my crappy issue ones) The best system I saw was sewing a new pocked over the knee to insert a pad - like American football.

I even knew a couple of schmucks who purchased Close combat optics and scopes for their M-4s .(why you need a scope for a carbine I dont know.

[FMolloy]

NIJ-rated armour is required to withstand several strikes of whatever round without failure. I'm not sure how many, but testing is extensive & done under a variety of circumstances.

The following excerpt is from www.militarymorons.com & while not an exhaustive test, give an idea of what a plate will take:

"10/9/04 - Ferdie and I went out to demo his Ferfrans rate reducer for a SWAT team. They had brought out a back RBA* plate to shoot at, so I took pics to document it. One of each of these rounds was fired at the plate: M193 (55 gr 5.56mm), M855/SS190 green tip, 5.56 Israeli AP, and 7.26X39. None of thse rounds penetrated to the back side of the plate. Range was from about 15-20 yards. The hits produced craters in the front, full of ceramic bits and powder, but there was no deformation of the back surface. Only when a barrage of 10-15 rounds in full auto was let loose did the rounds start to go through and kill the test dummy."

*RBA = Ranger Body Armour

[DeV]

"NI Body Armour" is reputed to be able to stop AK47 fire at close range

[California Tanker]

My SAPI plates would stop 7.62mm NATO at any range.

The new helmet (ACH) eliminates the problem mentioned above with the prone position.

A round's penetration will be highest closest to the muzzle: Once expelled, the only forces acting on the rounds are gravity and drag.

NTM

[combatlogo]

Just had a look at the website of the US Army's Natick Soldier Centre (http://www.natick.army.mil/soldier/).

It says the USMC's IBA vest consists of a base vest which offers protection against fragmentation & low-velocity threats and two Small Arms Protective Insert (SAPI) plates for dealing with rifle rounds. The base vest weighs around 3Kg and the plates come in at 1.8Kg each, dunno what NIJ rating the plates have.

They'll stop up to 7.62 and wearing the whole thing is a pain in the arse. Your trunk and vital organs aren't completely protected though, there are some vulnerable spots e.g. side of your chest.

I've seen the results after an AK was fired at the plates, they do work.

Murph, not so sure on that, I think a SAPI plate will stop 7.62 at any range. Some physics dude can correct me but I seem to recall that 5.56 achieved highest velocity/penatrative power at 200m

Alos, the Brits had body armour which stopped .50 cal, they used it in S. Armagh when the sniper with the Barrett was active but soldiers could only do a few hours at a VCP the thng was so heavy.

As for cost, I think they're about $400 each...several Marines were selling them on E-Bay only to find that their customer was an NCIS agent - at least one went to jail for a few years, a SSgt if I remember rightly.

Some scientists are working on some kind of viscous liquid/gel stuff which is very light and which will stop rounds.

[hptmurphy]

Depends on what the 7.62mm round is doing at the time of impact...close range inside 100 metres your dead......richochet...you'll probably be alright.....at the end of its travel...same as before muzzle pressed against your temple ....damned altogether.
So its kinda important to remember at what phase in its life cycle the round is.