L119s...

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
Reading in the Cosantoir lately, I see a pic of a Light Gun and find that it's now called the 119, by virtue of having a shorter barrel, which is supposed to save money by allowing cheaper rounds to be fired. Could someone enlighten me on this? Since when is economy of shell cost a function of barrel length?
regards
GttC

[Aidan]

Did the PDF actually get L119s?

Or was it a miss labelled L118?

[Arty Farty]

We now have both the L118 (British version of the 105) and the L119 (US version of the 105) the ammo for the L119 version is cheaper than the Royal Ordinance version. Using the US version emables the DF to shop around for ammo.

[Barry]

To clarify, the DF bought L118s (electronically fired rounds), which have since been modified to L119 (conventionally fired by a striker) standard. Standard NATO 105mm ammo is conventionally fired, which is more reliable than electronic firing (which doesn't like being wet, and requires the loader to wear leather gloves to stop static discharge from setting off the primer), and is also cheaper. L119s differ externally from L118s by the visibly shorter barrel

The yank version is called the M119, and is "improved", as the yanks tend to do.

[B Inman]

Some info re the L119 in this link. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m119.htm

[DeV]

The L118 fires rounds called "abbott" rounds where as the L119 can fire all standard NATO ammunition.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi Dev,
By "Abbot", are you referring to the self-propelled gun that had a 105mm gun? We should have bought them after the BA surplused them. With regard to the US Vs. British 105 rounds, what is the actual difference? Is is just a difference between cartridges or are the rounds incompatible, also? Kinda puts the lie to standardisation, doesn't it?
regards
GttC

[Barry]

Hi Dev,
By "Abbot", are you referring to the self-propelled gun that had a 105mm gun? We should have bought them after the BA surplused them. With regard to the US Vs. British 105 rounds, what is the actual difference? Is is just a difference between cartridges or are the rounds incompatible, also? Kinda puts the lie to standardisation, doesn't it?
regards
GttC

Yes, abbot refers to the now obsolete self propelled gun. The L118 used the same ammunition as the abbot.

There is no such thing as US and British 105mm rounds. Just different standards. Abbot ammo was electrically fired, and most likely has different aerodynamic qualities (or should, judging by the change in barrel length on our 105s) to NATO 105mm, which is fired conventionally

As far as standardisation goes, the GPMG fires a 7.62mm round, and the AK47 fires a 7.62mm round. Try to interchange the ammo and you will probably lose some fingers. Calibre is just a number. The whole reason for converting our L118s into L119s is standardisation. Our 105s now fire a standard NATO round, available anywhere you'll find NATO light artillery.

[ollie]

so barry u answering for dev these days

[DeV]

If he gets their before me and has a lot more artillery knowledge. I knew about the "abbott" refering to the SP gun and it not being NATO standard, I didn't know about the electronical firing etc.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there
The reference to 7.62 is an invalid comparison, given that the NATO round has a 51mm cartridge and the USSR's round has a 39 mm cartridge.I've fired both and the GPMG round is a better round, in terms of range, accuracy and build quality.What I meant with regard to the 105mm shells was: are the shells so physically different that they cannot be chambered in each other's guns or is it just the difference in firing mechanisms? Why does it need a shorter barrel? is there a difference in the propellants?
regards
GttC

[Goldie fish]

I guess its more like the Bofors 40mm situation. Same calibre, almost identical gun but completely different round.

[Aidan]

Sorry, just to clarify - have any additional 105mm artillery pieces been added to the inventory, or was this just a rebarrelling of existing guns?

[Archimedes]

The L118 cartridge is fired by passing a current through the primer. The L119 is fired by striking the primer with a firing pin just like in a rifle.

The L118 ammunition is unfixed. The shell is loaded first and rammed. The cartridge is then put in behind it. The L119 ammunition is semi-fixed. Once the correct charge is in the cartridge, the cartridge and shell are joined on a mating tray so that the whole assembly looks like one large rifle bullet. It is loaded in one go and not rammed.

As well as having a shorter barrel, the rifling of the L119 is also different.

The range of the L118 is considerably longer than the L119 so if artillery was required operationally, the L118 would probably be the first choice. The L119 will be used primarily for training because the mass produced ammunition is so much cheaper.

No additional guns have been bought, one battery of six guns has been converted.

[DeV]

Sorry, just to clarify - have any additional 105mm artillery pieces been added to the inventory, or was this just a rebarrelling of existing guns?

About 2/3 years ago, new 105s were bought along with a considerable amount of ammunition it was in Connect.