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  • Irish -v- foreign career course

    The badges of rank thread discussion on the reintroduction of a 1* corporal rank gave me the idea for this thread. Merely taking into account the length of the career courses are Irish (PDF) troops better trained than those in other countries. (Course must be completed - in most cases - to achieve rank in brackets).

    Recruit training - 16 weeks
    3* (corps) training (fully trained pte - 3*) -
    Pot NCOs Cse (Cpl) - 24 weeks + 2 weeks prelim with unit
    Std NCOs Cse (Sgt) - 10 weeks + corps training
    Sen NCOs Cse (CS/BSM) - 10 wks?
    CQMS Cse (CQMS) -
    BQMS Cse (BQMS) -

    Cadet training (2/Lt) - 21 months (non-graduates) / 15 months (graduates)
    Young Officers Cse (Lt) -
    Std Officers Cse (Capt) -
    Junior Command & Staff Cse (Comdt) - 21 wks
    Senior Command & Staff Cse (Lt Col) - 9 months
    Senior Officers Cse (Col) -

    All the above information is in the public arena (internet / An Cosantoir). How does this compare to other armies?

    Also can anyone fill in the blanks.
    Last edited by DeV; 29 October 2005, 16:42.

  • #2
    Pot ncos cse(2005 syallbus)- 24 weeks.
    Module one -4 weeks.
    Module 2-16 weeks.
    module 3- 4 weeks.
    Not including two weeks prelims with parent unit.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

    Comment


    • #3
      British Army

      Common Military Syllabus (Recruit) - 12 weeks
      Corps training (Infantry Private) - 12 weeks?
      Section Comdrs Battle Cse (Cpl) - 8 weeks?
      Platoon Sgts Battle Cse (Sgt) - 7 weeks?
      Inf Warrant Offrs Cse (WO2(CSM)) - 2 weeks

      Commissioning Cse (2/Lt) - 44 weeks (11 months)
      Pln Cmdrs Tactics Cse - 13 weeks

      Comment


      • #4
        yes ive wondered that too we have such long courses compared to other countries, like 9 weeks basic in the states but then they go 7 days a week whereas we dont so you cant just go by weeks either
        '....drug problem in vietnam? its not a problem everybody has some....'

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        • #5
          In the last Cadetship competition, there are 2 different types on offer to future line army officers. The normal 21 month cadetship for non-graduates and a shortened 15 month cadetship for graduates.

          http://www.military.ie/images/pdfs%2...05/cadet05.pdf (see page 11)

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          • #6
            Are enlisted personnel commissioned as 2nd or 1st LTs?
            WARNING: Consumption of alcohol may lead you to believe that ex-lovers are really dying for you to ring them at 4am!!

            Comment


            • #7
              What is a 1st Lt?, theres two ranks - 2/Lt and Lt.

              If they do a cadetship its the same situation as kermit described above. If they are commissioned from the ranks, in the army they used to be commissioned as captains. Not sure of the situation now.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm one...

                Wrong army though.

                NTM
                Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dont forget and I am deadly serious about this, in the new recruiting Syllabus there are lessons in cultural studies

                  Such as Flora and fauna, etc

                  no wonder its so long
                  Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                  Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                  The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                  The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                  The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                  Are full of passionate intensity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Canadian Army trg goes like this:
                    Recruit: 10 weeks
                    Soldier's qualification (All Army trades): 10 weeks
                    Infantry qualification: 10 weeks
                    Infantry section commander's course: 16 weeks
                    Infantry Platoon 2i/c course: 11 weeks
                    Senior Leader's course: 5 weeks
                    Infantry CSM course: 4weeks

                    There are changes ongoing in our trg system, so the numbers may change...
                    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

                    Never give up!!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "In the last Cadetship competition, there are 2 different types on offer to future line army officers. The normal 21 month cadetship for non-graduates and a shortened 15 month cadetship for graduates." The syllabus was amended in Oct and all Cadets who joined in 2005 are completing a 15 month course. The same will apply for the 2006 Cadetship Competition. Cadets with Leaving Cert educational qualifications will be commissioned as 2/LTs where as Graduates will be commissioned as LTs (point 4 on the pay scale). Enlisted personnel who are awarded Cadetships are commissioned as 2/Lts or Lts depending on their educational qualifications.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Callsign_Kilo_Lima
                        Has the temptation struck anyone to join a foreign army? One would assume that you like soldiering, hence being in the RDF or PDF, why not do it somewhere there's actually a defence budget and you can go on OPs that aren't UN based? Just a thought!
                        Funny you should ask that...

                        Anyway:

                        US Army:
                        Basic 11 weeks. (They say nine, but I know for a fact I was there for longer!)
                        AIT: Course-dependant. Tends to be three or four months, though for some soldiers, can be over a year. (EOD comes to mind)
                        OSUT: (Combination Basic/AIT for combat soldiers: Inf, Arm, Arty) About 4-5 months.
                        Primary Leadership Development Course. (Sergeant, team leader): 4 weeks.
                        Basic NCO Course: (Staff Sergeant, squad leader) Varies by job: Somewhere around 12 weeks is around right.
                        Advanced NCO Course: (Sergeant First Class, platoon sergeant) 8 weeks.

                        This is only the 'required' coursework for promotion as far as E-7/SFC. You have no idea how many different courses are available. For example you can spend 60 days at Ranger School if you really want to go for some hard-core infantry leadership education.

                        NTM
                        Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          US Army:
                          Basic 11 weeks. (They say nine, but I know for a fact I was there for longer!)
                          AIT: Course-dependant. Tends to be three or four months, though for some soldiers, can be over a year. (EOD comes to mind)
                          OSUT: (Combination Basic/AIT for combat soldiers: Inf, Arm, Arty) About 4-5 months.
                          Primary Leadership Development Course. (Sergeant, team leader): 4 weeks.
                          Basic NCO Course: (Staff Sergeant, squad leader) Varies by job: Somewhere around 12 weeks is around right.
                          Advanced NCO Course: (Sergeant First Class, platoon sergeant) 8 weeks.

                          Cal Tank

                          you lads dont do as such an NCO cse, to progress you from Pte to Cpl, I take it- ours is 24 weeks long

                          Cpl to Sgt is 11 weeks and Snr NCo cse is now 12 weeks

                          Do your lads complete the course and pass out at that rank

                          what do these course consist of

                          are they hard

                          are they beasting sessions etc etc

                          Thanks
                          Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                          Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                          The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                          The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                          The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                          Are full of passionate intensity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cal Tank

                            you lads dont do as such an NCO cse, to progress you from Pte to Cpl, I take it- ours is 24 weeks long


                            CPL is pretty much a very rare rank in the US these days. By and large, the only reason one gets corporal's stripes is that he's in a position where he needs to have the authority of an NCO, but doesn't make the minimum regulation requirements for promotion to that grade. (i.e. time in service, time in grade).

                            The ranks in brackets are the ranks that you achieve after the course: eg PLDC is required to hold a Sergeant's rank.

                            what do these course consist of
                            Damned if I know. I went to OCS instead.

                            Maybe IrishRgr or others could fill you in.

                            NTM
                            Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              PLDC is (if memory serves) about 5 weeks and is not branch relative ie infantry types with the worlds cooks mechanics etc. Instead of rigorous training it was just awful- marching and learning how to do paperwork. A 2 day ftx that was useless and presto your qualified. BNCOC is branch specific and two months plus in length, I went recently and found it quite rewarding.PLDC is for Sgt E-5 and BNCOC is for ssg E-6.
                              When I breeze into that city, people gonna stoop and bow.
                              All them women gonna make me, teach 'em what they don't know how

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