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  • Practice makes Perfect

    We all know it is mandatory for all of us to fire our rifles annually, but the questions I have are…..


    1. How often do you go to the range to practice?

    2. In your opinion how frequently would you soldier have to attend range practices to be of a “good standard”?

    3. In your opinion what is a “good standard” i.e. (an 8inch grouping at 300m ect.)



    I’m putting these questions forward because its been nearly a year since I’ve fired my rifle on the range! I have been in the army for a few years and I have frequently gone months without going to the range for practice. At first I thought this was isolated to the unit I am in, but I have asked around other units and I seem to be the same everywhere.

    Also I can’t understand how someone could be expected to be of a “good standard” if they only visit the range on average once a year.

    I just think a soldier only firing his rifle every few months is a joke we should be firing far more often than that lads

    Thanks for reading

    Ryback
    Last edited by Ryback; 21 November 2005, 15:43.

  • #2
    Annual as regards army shooting is every second year.
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    • #3
      troops should be on the ranges at least twice a year as a minimum, ideally firing all weapons they are qualified on.

      unfortunatelly this isn't the case with people on shooting teams seeming to get most range time.

      there should also be more use of the individual battle lane practices, etc. where personnel can practice shooting in tactical situations. Range shoots are all very good, but personnel also have to be able to move tactically, take effective cover and then shoot and hit targets to be really effective as a soldier. Sometimes people foget if it ever happens for real, we won't all be lined up on a comfy 200m line! In my opinion, there should be more emphasis on this type of training also.
      Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

      And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

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      • #4
        I loose count of how many times i attend the range every ...but then again the results speak for themselves!
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • #5
          I know that I attended the range much more often when I was in the reserve than I ever did when in the PDF. If memory serves me correctly, I fired twice in recruit training and once a year after that. When I was in the FCA, it seems like we went to the range about once every couple of months.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Joshua
            Annual as regards army shooting is every second year.
            No, Im afraid your wrong there. Annual as regards Army shooting is every year, usually at the start of the year(jan,feb). In answer to the first question.

            1. About 3 months every year. (shooting team)

            2. I think for most soldiers to achieve a "good" standard, you would need at least 3 months shooting every year.

            3. An 8 inch group at 300, with a combat weapon(styer) which has no definitive point of aim, is in my opinion a "good standard".

            Some people have a natural ability to shoot and with practice can make excellent shots. Others have to work hard to achieve any sort of decent standard. but I am a firm believer in the idea that almost anyone can be taught to shoot. I would offer the opinion that we do NOT spend enough time concentrating on the basics of shooting within the Army. It seems to be something that has slipped in recent years( training on marksmanship principals).
            But then " a lot" of things have slipped in recent years, have they not?
            While I'm on the subject, here's something I could never understand. We have a weapon which can fire ungodly ammounts of ammo in a minute, when it is on full auto. Yet we have no range practice to teach us how to fire the weapon on full auto. I have never(legally) fired my weapon on full automatic. There seems to be something wrong there boys, "ne pas"?
            Last edited by herr flick; 21 November 2005, 15:02.
            Press Corp-"Say General the Folks back home would sure like to know where you got that pearl handled revolver?
            Patton-" P-P- Pearl? ITS IVORY-only a cheap New Orleans Pimp would use a PEARL handled revolver

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            • #7
              herr flick, what range would you suggest a full-auto practice on the steyr be done? 100 metres would seem a bit distant cos the group after the first 2 rounds is usually big (from what I've seen). Perhaps 50 metres, 25metres or even 10 metres??

              As regards aiming, without the fixed point of aim its a bit of a pain at times cos you have to estimate. More practice at zeroing and aiming off would help in my opinion. You should have a chance to zero it perfectly at 100metres then prcatice at 100m, 200 and 300 on the four-footers.

              Another thing that would help is that you should be given the same rifle every time you fire. I'm sick of this bulls**t of having to take a manky rifle to a range practice and not being given a chance to clean it before firing.

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              • #8
                The FN had a .22 practice adapter, would there be any value in having a similar setup for the Steyr along with some miniature ranges?
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                With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

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                • #9
                  And not enough / poor quality cleaning kits.
                  It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

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                  • #10
                    In my opinion (and I know for the army it is impossibly impractical) the best way to do things is to have a list of who gets each rifle evertime they check them out of the stores.

                    The benefits:

                    Each private is zeroed to their own rifle.Greater accuracy and less dependance on armorers.

                    The private is given the responsibility of cleaning and maintaining that rifle. That way substandard soldiers receive bollickings for not having their rifle clean.

                    If their is any problems or kinks with the rifle, the private knows how to solve them. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one whos had a problem with a dodgy cocking handle or gas plug only to have another private who had the rifle before hand and has dealt with the problem to show me how to correct it.

                    Each private is given a cleaning kit to put in the butt of their rifle. Any inspections of the rifle should also include an inspection of this cleaning kit and bollickings administered if any kit missing.

                    We get to go around shouting "This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine"


                    The drawbacks:

                    Requires a little organisation. Most officers find this an impossible task.

                    Requires a little more time in stores checking out the weapons.

                    It will be slightly difficult to keep an eye on who has what rifle. The arduous task of making a list will have to be undertaken.



                    Hopefully some general will see this and realise how much of a good idea it is. Fingers crossed.
                    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by yellowjacket
                      The FN had a .22 practice adapter, would there be any value in having a similar setup for the Steyr along with some miniature ranges?
                      Perhaps there would but we havent got them so let's work on what we have. Ammo isn't that expensive at all (when you collect the brass and return it). It would be better to have range practices in the middle months of the year (May/June/July) as the days are longer and the weather better.

                      One of the problems we have on the range, in my unit at least, is that we go up in the early months of the year when the weather is sh**e in Kilbride. The days are dark enough with the constant cloud cover. The weather being crap means that the officers want to get back to camp ASAP and get wam/dry. Last ARP's I did were in abysmal weather which is good for training some would say but it's nice to fire in ideal conditions too.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bulldemboots!
                        Last ARP's I did were in abysmal weather which is good for training some would say but it's nice to fire in ideal conditions too.

                        Last competion was in abysmal weather too. So the practice did help a bit.
                        To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

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                        • #13
                          Ammo isn't that expensive at all
                          The problems of access to range time seem to have more to do with the difficulties of organising firing practices, with range officers, security details etc etc. A lot of these would be made simpler with indoor ranges (25/50 m) firing rimfire ammunition.

                          The benefits of normal range time would be maximised of the shooters were already familiarised with marksmanship principles from using the rimfire.

                          An alternative might be the various types of electronic shooting simulator, which might be more effective and cost effective compared to rimfires in the longer term, as they also allow for combat shooting simulation using video.
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                          Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The FN had a .22 practice adapter, would there be any value in having a similar setup for the Steyr along with some miniature ranges?[QUOTE]

                            there is one in mc kee and as far as i know they have .22 kits fo the steyrs

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HavocIRL
                              Requires a little more time in stores checking out the weapons.
                              Simple answer: Get everyone to line up in the same order every time you draw weapons.

                              A .22 kit for the steyr would require a whole new gun lock group and barrel, a magazine adaptor and .22 magazine, and possibly a new trigger group. A much more functional and practical solution would be the use of electronic ranges. Oh wait, we have one of them, they just won't let the RDF use it.......

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