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  • #16
    ... but back on topic, I know a guy who is only in the pdf ad a shortwhile and he said they are always trying to skim more time off the set up time......
    Last edited by DeV; 27 December 2005, 21:39.
    The trick to pet names is a combination of affectionate nouns. Honeybun. Sugarpie. Kittentits.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner
      Hi all
      Well then, it also begs the question: should the DF have a short-range point-defence weapon, like a land-based GAMBO, of 20-30mm calibre, or even 12.7mm, to provide even a token defence whilst the heavier kit is being set up. It takes very,very little time to get a towed or vehicle-mounted 20mm gun in action, even if it's only aimed by the Mark 1 eyeball.If it's one thing attack pilots hate, it's light AA, spewing out lots of rounds.Puts them of, so it does.
      The EL70 can be set up to fire with optical sights in a very short time. It's not gonna be accurate and you won't have the guns firing effectively together but you will have a lot of sharp metal in the sky. The Flycatcher takes a little longer and what takes up so much time is lineing out the guns to be fired remotely from the radar.
      "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

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      • #18
        those sights are a lot of fun when you're tracking manually.
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        WHAT FLIES DIES

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        • #19
          Hi all
          I read an account of a rapid entry into action of a Bofors in WW2. A famous ace was strolling along the flightline, fresh out of the Mess after the breakfast, when a flight of Me-109s came over at very low level, to strafe the airfield, in the "Bodenplatte" mass raid. As the ace dived to the ground, he noticed a pair of men run to a Bofors, take their seats and fire one round. One of the Messerschmitts immediately burst into flame and flopped onto the airfield before them, amidst all the carnage going on all round them. Even they were surprised by their shot!
          regards
          GttC

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          • #20
            No doubt a trusty totally manual L60... the good thing about No technology. Less to go wrong.


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner
              Hi all
              I read an account of a rapid entry into action of a Bofors in WW2. A famous ace was strolling along the flightline, fresh out of the Mess after the breakfast, when a flight of Me-109s came over at very low level, to strafe the airfield, in the "Bodenplatte" mass raid. As the ace dived to the ground, he noticed a pair of men run to a Bofors, take their seats and fire one round. One of the Messerschmitts immediately burst into flame and flopped onto the airfield before them, amidst all the carnage going on all round them. Even they were surprised by their shot!
              regards
              GttC
              Say what you will about luck or whatever but how class would that be.
              Lifes a bitch, so be her pimp!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by fiannoglach
                run-in (Attack) speed for an F-16 is 480-540 nm per hour, roughly 8-9 miles a minute,
                Just a question here but in relation to those figures are they ground speed or air speed.
                Lifes a bitch, so be her pimp!

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                • #23
                  I use to be a M163 gunner. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m163.htm The US Army has gotten rid of AAA guns, which is a shame. The L70 is a great weapon.

                  SAMs are great too, however you really need AAA guns to put up a wall of lead. Even it it keeps aircraft from flying lower its worth it. Look at how NATO aircraft did not want to fly below 15,000 for fear of AAA and hand-held SAMs. Of course it was a political desicon, not a military one. But the results are the same.

                  AAA guns are cheaper to train with too. A well trained crew can be dangerous to any low flying aircraft. And it can make a good, direct fire ground weapon too. I am glad the Irish still use it. But how do they deploy them? Are they always at a training area, are they operational deployed around the country?
                  Last edited by ldman60119; 31 December 2005, 00:53.

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                  • #24
                    We dont discuss operational matters here. That includes deployment or procedures.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                    • #25
                      just for info purposes.......... during the falklands war or malvinas war depending on your leaning....... British Rapier A.D. missle systems froze and electronics got damp in the very cold and poor conditions of the malvinas islands.....so as a stop gap the royal navy had old L60 AAA guns minus the wheel carrage welded to the decks of some of their ships and they were quite a deterant as AAF super etandards and sky hawks kept their distance after an engagement just after the guns arrival in the battle zone.......... however exocets also did negate their need to be in so close to the battle group...
                      the spoon is too big for the pots

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                      • #26
                        The L60s were a standard fit on many of the older warships. Fearless and Intrepid were such a type. They were not a retrofit. However many of the civilian vessels had pintle mounted gpmg added for basic AA cover.

                        Our own PVs operated 1950s built L60s up to recently.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #27
                          It should also be noted that the Argentines only had 5 air launched Exocets at the start of the conflict. They still had to fly right over most of their targets to drop Mk82, 83s and 84s. If they'd their fusing issues sorted out, it would have been plenty.

                          As for the L70, the issue of 'taking on an F16' is a largely a moot point. Domestically, the most likely use is deterrence, followed by a light aircraft is the use of domestic terrorists.

                          Abroad, the most likely is either helicopters (and not front line EU/US Tiger/AH-64 types either) or much older Warpac gear. Against that kind of equipment, the Flycatcher/L70 set up should do just fine.

                          Against first world military hardware, this type of equipment is simply a complex and tiring way of getting your own people killed.

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                          • #28
                            I agree Aidan, but Zepellin's, they'd be good against Zepellin's too

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                            • #29
                              The delay was not due to surveying the guns (which is controlled remotely by the Flycatcher) - the delay was due to slack (or nonexistant) drills. They don't have to be in the field and ready to go in 3 minutes, but a lot of time could be saved if they got the finger out and had everything hooked up as quickly as possible.
                              Its the drill. It has to be done right, and in the right order. And we have only had them a relatively short period. I am sure there will be revised drills which will tweak it somewhat, and bring set up time down alot.
                              ====================================
                              Theres no place like 127.0.0.1
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                              • #30
                                SAFETY FIRST!!!! In a training situation (i.e ARPs with EL70s) it most important that in any element of the Defence Forces that we sharpen up at performances (set up/out lay times etc..) but you have to balance Time And Perfomance with that of Health And Safety etc...

                                It is important that we do continue improve set up time of Gun Lines and associated ancilliarie equipent such as Flycatcher etc... but the ADR is only getting to grip with full capabilty of the EL70s and Flycatchers etc and will take lead In Time For Army Troop to get full Grips with this equipments full capability and this will happen with preogressive training plans PDF/RDF (which already in place) and also with students taking part on courses when proper legislation comes into place to secure Reserevists employment so free them up to take part on courses like the Flycatcher Cmdr etc... will help the likes of the ADR in reducing set up time of Gun Lines or equivilant etc..
                                British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                                Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                                [As the British flag comes down]

                                Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

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