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  • #31
    Originally posted by concussion
    The EL70 can be set up to fire with optical sights in a very short time. It's not gonna be accurate and you won't have the guns firing effectively together but you will have a lot of sharp metal in the sky.
    Small airplane. Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig sky.

    Originally posted by fiannoglach
    I agree Aidan, but Zepellin's, they'd be good against Zepellin's too
    Zeppillins could operate at 20,000 feet which would be a push for 40mm, but within max range today.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Victor
      Small airplane. Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig sky.
      Which is why the guns turn all the way around...
      "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

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      • #33
        The drill for this is far from perfect, but it's not the easiest weapon to get into or out of action, a lot of pumping is required to get it back off the ground, the gun also has to be perfectly level before it can be fired by the flycatcher, this can take a lot of time ( especially when ordanance climb all over your levels and shatter the glass poor 618 she'll never be the same)

        I do agree the set up time could be improved on, but the fact remains that we are a defensive unit not offensive, This means we a usually have pleanty of warning and time to set up the gun, before said F16 type target gets near us. Therefore we don't have to rush.

        Also if the gun and flycatcher are not set up correctly, people could die, and not the people we're aiming at. So caution has to prevail over speed.

        How's the weather in oz concussion?
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        • #34
          Originally posted by ackack
          Therefore we don't have to rush.
          Anti radiation missiles have a range of 30 miles, you'd be luckly to engage at all....
          You're even dumber than I tell people

          You might have been infected but you never were a bore

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          • #35
            These weapons have a long tear down time, which no amount of drills or practice can improve.to get the beast off the ground takes about 3 to 4 minutes of pumping.

            I reckon something like this would be better

            http://www.army-technology.com/proje.../avenger4.html

            or maybe

            http://www.mowag.ch/Images/Bildergal.../8x8-II_11.jpg

            But i'm not running a procurment program so i'll just have to keep pumping.
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            • #36
              Anti radiation missiles have a range of 30 miles, you'd be luckly to engage at all....
              Against a semi fixed gun emplacement, who needs ARMs? JDAM, any LGB you want, or any cruise type weapon (from BGM-109 to Storm Shadow) would be just as good. The engagement envelope for guns is so small that ARMs really are not required.

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              • #37
                Would a more cost-effective method of providing Local Air Defence capability by simply purchasing a form of MANPADS?? Somethings like the FIM-92 or Mistral SAMs they would provide the ADR with a cheaper ground based system to protect the likes of set up (Gun Lines etc..) and removal from locations of occupation.
                British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                [As the British flag comes down]

                Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

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                • #38
                  1 bty have the RBS 70, however it is not used as protection for the line, just as an individual weapon. any airctaft would have to get through the RBS 70 before they get to our guns. The EL70 is for those aircraft that do break through
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                  • #39
                    ARM's will still leave the guns operational but pushed back to WW2 era visual operations. As for cruise missiles, cluster munitions and LGB/iron bombs, we have a very useful bit of kit known as cammo netting. Of course, the opposition will probably have radar. As for cost effectiveness, at the price we got the system, you just can't beat it
                    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by concussion
                      ARM's will still leave the guns operational but pushed back to WW2 era visual operations. As for cruise missiles, cluster munitions and LGB/iron bombs, we have a very useful bit of kit known as cammo netting. Of course, the opposition will probably have radar. As for cost effectiveness, at the price we got the system, you just can't beat it
                      No offense but do you really know what you are talking about?

                      An ARM detonates over the target and basically shreds everything with shrapnel and ball bearings (A simplistic view but...). The idea being to shred the radar antennaes and vehicles etc. It also makes a pretty good job of shredding flesh. If you think anything is going to work or have anyone to work it after a direct hit by an ARM.....

                      Secondly. Cammo Netting??? May have worked in WWII but this is the 21st century. Ever hear of FLIR? And 1st Gen FLIR is ancient at this stage. The average EW platform will be able to triangulate your emmissions and plot your position. And this isn't 21st Century stuff either, they have been able to do this for years. I admit that you can get IRR cammo stuff nowadays but Netting?

                      And you do know why it was so cheap..... You get what you pay for.

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                      • #41
                        Docman,

                        Whats the effective blast radius of an ARM?

                        Would i be right in saying that most conventional warheads will have a blast radius of no more than a couple of hundred meters?(open to correction)

                        The EL70 can be set up, up to 2km from the flycatcher. So there is a fair possibility the gun will still be operational if the flycatcher bites the bullet.
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                        • #42
                          Secondly. Cammo Netting??? May have worked in WWII but this is the 21st century. Ever hear of FLIR? And 1st Gen FLIR is ancient at this stage. The average EW platform will be able to triangulate your emmissions and plot your position. And this isn't 21st Century stuff either, they have been able to do this for years. I admit that you can get IRR cammo stuff nowadays but Netting?
                          plus MMW radar which can "see" trough obstacles and id thing's by their pattern, the Brit's have the new Brimstone missile which can do that
                          Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                          Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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                          • #43
                            Like ackack pointed out, the guns are separated from the radar for exactly that reason. While no-one expects the radar to last very long, we're not in the habit of sitting there radiating for everyone to see, the radars will stay shut down till the last possible moment. And yes, I do know about firing ARM's into an area to loiter until something starts radiating but once a target is inside the radar coverage it only takes seconds to engage it, hopfully before the flycatcher turns into itty pieces.

                            As for concealing 5 ton arty pieces, maybe we can break out the old l60's as decoys. If the yanks mistook dilapidated trucks for mobile launchers in Iraq maybe we can pull off a similar trick.
                            "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ackack
                              1 bty have the RBS 70, however it is not used as protection for the line, just as an individual weapon. any airctaft would have to get through the RBS 70 before they get to our guns. The EL70 is for those aircraft that do break through
                              The guns have as good a range and the missile is much slower (although command guided).
                              Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

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                              • #45
                                Hi all
                                If the L70s fire proximity-fused rounds, then even missiles can, potentially, be shot down,assuming the radar is good enough to track and lock onto such weapons.The 40mm round is big enough for a one-shot or one-clip kill,against robust attack aircraft, so the gun still has relevance as an anti-aircraft system, not to mention it's ability against ground targets. I remember seeing a report on TV showing a Serbian gunner gleefully smashing rounds into Sarajevo, with an earlier model Bofors.Geneva Convention didn't get a look in.
                                regards
                                GttC

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