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  • Battle Inoculation

    I'm currently plowing through Declan Powers "Siege at Jadotville" ( a fantastic read by the way). As I was flicking through I stumbled upon a point of interest, Power speaks of a "Battle Inoculation"..

    "For the last couple of decades, Irish troops going abroad on active service have experienced what is called a "Battle Inoculation". The idea is to put the troops in trenches in a reasonably sage state and subject them to shell and machine-gun fire."

    I was wondering what experiences (if any) people have of this, as I have not heard anything relating to this topic before. All though it makes perfect sense to me and would whole heartedly agree with this practice...I just cant imagine the DF being so risqué as to fire live ammunition at/or in vicinity of our precious troops!

    Nearest thing to this I've experienced is the occasional ricochet when manning the butts on a GPMG shoot!
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

  • #2
    I did a course down in Kent a few years back were the staff fired various different weapons only inches over your head so you could get used to the noise (whizz/thud) and were also able to identify different weapon noises.
    Last edited by Rooster; 15 January 2006, 23:04.

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    • #3
      I have done it three times.You sit in the trench on the anti -tank range in the glen and they fire.5's and mag sf's over your heads.Sometimes they also fire off the apcs.Then comes the bat sims set off by the engrs.No9 big deal but it does give you some idea of what it is like to be under fire.
      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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      • #4
        Out of interest, although from the obvious difference between bullets passing over you within inches rather then feet, how do the rifle butts compare to battle inoculation. Obviously unless its something like a MAG shoot, there's alot less rounds going over your head in the butts. It took me a while to get used to my first time in the butts, scared the crap out of me the first time! Just felt wrong.

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        • #5
          http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/b...6&postcount=44





          26th July 2004, 22:24 #44
          Parts


          Walter from Liberia



          Join Date: Jul 2004
          Location: Lots of different places
          Posts: 279




          Ranges in other DFs



          Had the opportunity to use a range in Australia a few years back - just for zeroing. Instead of the targets being in a fixed location, and the firers moving back through the range, the firing point was in a fixed location, and targets popped up at intervals of 50m distance. A VDU at each individual firer's position displayed fall of shot and calculated MPI of each group, so hey presto - no butts. The FP was covered (due to sweltering sunshine), hell: there was even a Coke machine on the FP.


          On the merits of the butts as realistic battle conditioning; perhaps, but it is no way ideal. If you want battle innoculation, then that's what you have to get, and I can assure you that the butts is no place for that.
          Investment in infrastructure, like the rifle ranges is essential for training the basic elements of soldiering into recruits, both PDF and RDF. To say "we are supposed to be able to put up with these conditions" is a cop out, training for adverse conditions takes place in Tactical Training blocks, the range is for learning to shoot.
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          • #6
            I did it a few times in the glen

            but I also did it in the black hole and Haddatha and Ayta Zut and Al Ya Tun

            The couple of pounds of P4 or whatever the engineers give a good bang

            but is only whn a Marcakava rounds lands close to your position that you think

            Holy sweet mother of lemonade what the fkcu is happening here

            (I love the smelll of a break on a saturday morning
            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
            Are full of passionate intensity.

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            • #7
              Yeah,i used to just lOOOve when gate 12 opened up! sitting in at -tiri listening to the 155's pounding r'shaf.Oh happy days.
              NOT!
              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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              • #8
                Actually it used to be great on a night shift on a summer trip on the hill

                looking out and seeing all the PV's opening up -

                all the way down into Nep Batt

                the down side was that ther was some poor unfourtunate on the receiving end
                Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                Are full of passionate intensity.

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                • #9
                  Hi there
                  That depends on your definition of unfortunate. If a 155 falls on the skull of a fella who's just back from a bout of launching Katyushas in to a kibbutz, then tough! If it falls on his kids, well, not so nice.Needless to say, the IDF were as indiscriminate as the Katyusha firers...Wasn't it the case that local militias would fire close by new UN units as they rotated in. Give em a taste of the sound of a Kalash or a PK. I don't think squatting in a slittie in the Glen quite cuts it.
                  regards
                  GttC

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                  • #10
                    That depends on your definition of unfortunate.
                    As peace keepers in the Leb situation are job was to remiain impartial

                    My point about unfortunates was all the poor peoples in the villages of At Tiri - Kunin- Haddatha etc who never fired fkcu all at the IDF

                    can you imagined if the brits on the border lashed XMG out of it becuae one of htere towers had been hit

                    the point I was making ( and probably very badly) was

                    that on summer nights we used to sit on sandbags in the hill and watch all the compounds open up and then the PC's got stuck in

                    Tracey Chapman and the bangels were always on BFBS from Cyprus

                    even now if i hear walk like an Egeyptian or fast car it always brings me back to those nights

                    turn the moments golden with Barry's tea
                    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                    Are full of passionate intensity.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hedgehog
                      As peace keepers in the Leb situation are job was to remiain impartial

                      that on summer nights we used to sit on sandbags in the hill
                      Ah so there were FCA units in the Leb after all.
                      Support the Search Function.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hedgehog

                        that on summer nights we used to sit on sandbags in the hill ...
                        Different type of sandbag methinks
                        What is you major malfunction numbnuts!
                        Didn't mommy and daddy show you enough attention when you were a child?!

                        The last words of Sgt. Hartman

                        Full Metal Jacket

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                        • #13
                          Yes, I know its was only make belive but, the beach scenes in 'saving pte Ryan' was the nearest anyone could come to a battle scene bar the real thing, The body parts, shell Explosions/ Machine gun fire/noise ect was something else. I doubt if any army could/ would be prepaired to spend that amount of money for such realistic battle inoculation.
                          Last edited by beenthere; 15 January 2006, 23:02.
                          it will be long, it will be hard, and there will be no withdrawl
                          Winston churchill

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by beenthere
                            Yes, I know its was only make belive but, the beach scenes in 'saving pte Ryan' was the nearest anyone could come to a battle scene bar the real thing, The body parts, shell Explosions/ Machine gun fire/noise ect was something else. I doubt if any army could/ would be prepaired to spend that amount of money for such realistic battle inoculation.



                            I remember when I joined the TA for the first time in the mid 90's and part of our training was watching Warsaw Pact video's, one of the Corporals told me that Russia lost 1 per cent of its Army every year in training exercises, that was a bit of an eye opener!!!
                            Last edited by Rooster; 15 January 2006, 23:17.

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                            • #15
                              I basic here we did one at the end of our 20 mile (or was it Km) it was a while ago ruck march. It was at night and they had platforms set up that fired 60mm over our heads and pits where they set off charges - we had to low crawl through it - it was pretty cool - haven't done one since though.
                              There may be only one time in your life when your country will call upon you and you will be the only one who can do the nasty job that has to be done -- do it or forever after there will be the taste of ashes in your mouth.

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