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  • #91
    Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post

    for the arty people...would self propelled guns improve survivability over towed guns?
    Hardly need to be an arty person to know the answer to that. Hardly even need to be a person. Of course they would.

    The ability to shoot and scoot with minimal/none set up and pack up time would do what to your ability to evade counter battery fire? Wild guess??!!!!
    Last edited by Jetjock; 27 April 2007, 15:14.

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    • #92
      Hi there
      Cast yizzer minds back to the coastal artillery of 6in calibre, last fired in 1971. That's not that long ago.Some of the coastal guns could be trained inland and I know that range tables were made up for all of the towns in reach of the Cork guns. As for my statement about the suitability of the Glen, I was told that as long ago as 1982, that the Glen was unsuitable because of the short distance between the firing point and the target area, ie, the 155 would not be able to be shot to the full extent of it's capabilities.I was told by one Arty officer that the 155 was considered desirable for commonality with UK/NATO ammunition sources, but that the old bugbear, funding, prevented acquisition of enough guns and enough heavy traction to move them.
      regards
      GttC

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      • #93
        Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
        I was told that as long ago as 1982, that the Glen was unsuitable because of the short distance between the firing point and the target area, ie, the 155 would not be able to be shot to the full extent of it's capabilities
        Not going into details here, but as it stands, not even the 25 Pdrs are being pushed anywhere near the full extent of their (65 year old) capabilities.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
          ......for the arty people...would self propelled guns improve survivability over towed guns?
          Am not Arty, but my personal opinion is that while you can rapidly move the
          self propelled weapon (such as the one above) quickly after firing your rounds
          to change position, if the vehicle itself breaks down, then you have a problem.

          I don't know if that weapon above is demountable onto another vehicle or not.
          If it is, you still lose valuable time hooking it to another vehicle.

          If it isn't demountable, then you have to destroy and leave the weapon behind.

          With a conventional arty piece, if the towing vehicle breaks down, just unhitch
          and hitch to another vehicle, and away. That's my tuppenny worth, anyway....
          "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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          • #95
            mortar carrier

            Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
            Am not Arty, but my personal opinion is that while you can rapidly move the
            self propelled weapon (such as the one above) quickly after firing your rounds
            to change position, if the vehicle itself breaks down, then you have a problem.

            I don't know if that weapon above is demountable onto another vehicle or not.
            If it is, you still lose valuable time hooking it to another vehicle.

            If it isn't demountable, then you have to destroy and leave the weapon behind.

            With a conventional arty piece, if the towing vehicle breaks down, just unhitch
            and hitch to another vehicle, and away. That's my tuppenny worth, anyway....

            If it's a self-propelled 155mm then it's probably not dismountable. But if it's a 120mm mortar in the back of a Piranha, then it probably is. This is a picture of a 120mm mortar in a US Army Stryker, their version of the Piranha:



            Personally I think this is way for the Irish Army to go....
            Last edited by FMolloy; 27 April 2007, 17:35.

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            • #96
              Hmmm, thats only if there are more vehicles than guns. Most self propelled arty pieces are armoured against shrapnel and small arms fire and engine trouble is such an unlikely event that it would not be a consideration. Artillery is in general a rear area of operations weapon and in the unlikely event of an engine failure towing even a small distance would be sufficient to avoid return fire. The advantage that SPA gives over towed is there is no set up/tear down time. You literally shoot and get the hell outa dodge. It's immediate.Thats was the whole reason it was ever devised.Thats why it is considered more desirable than towed artillery by any major army. No one has ever said "let's stick to towed in case the other stuff breaks down". If that was the thinking you'd be better off going into battle with a towed 120mm gun than say, a TANK! In fact Truckdriver, how bout the Logs boys train with horses and carts altogether??!!
              Towed artillery's advantages are it's cheaper and due to it's size it's easier to deploy strategically(from Ireland to a overseas deployment).
              Self propelled 155mm arty is almost in the realms of hovertanks anyway. What is more realistic is something like these....Nemo or Amos.
              http://www.army-technology.com/contr...illery/patria/
              As for return battery fire. Stick it on a Mowag and I bet any opposing force would have trouble Finding Nemo.....sorry!
              Last edited by Jetjock; 27 April 2007, 17:38.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Jetjock
                ....Artillery is in general a rear area of operations weapon and in the unlikely event of an engine failure towing even a small distance would be sufficient to avoid return fire.
                Of course there's no fear of the front line being overrun and the opposition
                getting anywhere near the "rear area of operations"


                Originally posted by Jetjock
                ....The advantage that SPA gives over towed is there is no set up/tear down time. You literally shoot and get the hell outa dodge. It's immediate.Thats was the whole reason it was ever devised.
                Yes, I did mention that in my post above alright

                Originally posted by Jetjock
                ....No one has ever said "let's stick to towed in case the other stuff breaks down".
                I never did either. I was merely pointing out the shortcomings versus the
                advantages between the two.

                Originally posted by Jetjock
                ....If that was the thinking you'd be better off going into battle with a towed 120mm gun than say, a TANK!
                Be my guest...........

                Originally posted by Jetjock
                ....In fact Truckdriver, how bout the Logs boys train with horses and carts altogether??!!
                I think I' ll leave the gee gees to the Equitation School, thanks a lot...

                Originally posted by Jetjock
                ....Towed artillery's advantages are it's cheaper and due to it's size it's easier to deploy strategically(from Ireland to a overseas deployment).
                Can't say I'm familiar with the price of one versus the other.

                Originally posted by Jetjock
                ............As for return battery fire. Stick it on a Mowag and I bet any opposing force would have trouble Finding Nemo.....sorry!
                I think that you'll find most warplanes will outrun a self propelled gun any day, even with a head start, and any CTR group worth their salt would be able to spot and guide in an air strike, so that doesn't really make any difference
                Last edited by FMolloy; 27 April 2007, 18:21.
                "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                • #98
                  And the prize for the most pessimistic post on this board goes to................Truckdriver!!!

                  Front lines getting overrun, self propelled arty breaking down, and the clincher.....

                  Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post


                  I think that you'll find most warplanes will outrun a self propelled gun any day, even with a head start, and any CTR group worth their salt would be able to spot and guide in an air strike, so that doesn't really make any difference

                  Well why is artillery even a relevant modern battlefield weapon in that case??? Can you ever see Irish troops operating in an environment where aerial superiority is not already secured?

                  As for the price of towed versus self propelled. Lets just take a wild guess that a gun in a turret and mounted on a vehicle is more expensive than say... a gun. Still with me?

                  Tell you what lets revert to spears and pitch forks, the guns could jam. Even better lets forget about an army altogether, someone could get shot.
                  Last edited by Jetjock; 28 April 2007, 01:15.

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                  • #99
                    Some on correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Jap artillery do major damage to the Yanks during WWII even though the Yanks had almost total controll over the sky?

                    Surely the artillery is far enough behind the front lind so that it can be moved as required.

                    Jetjock horse and cart would be cav. Logs would be donkey and cart. Or even warehouse as far back as possible and you can come and get your own supplies!!!!!!!!!

                    "I think that you'll find most warplanes will outrun a self propelled gun any day," a bit irrelevant. Planes woulld out run anything on the ground. Isnt that why como was invented?
                    Last edited by luchi; 28 April 2007, 01:07.
                    Without supplies no army is brave.

                    —Frederick the Great,

                    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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                    • Originally posted by luchi View Post

                      Jetjock horse and cart would be cav. Logs would be donkey and cart. Or even warehouse as far back as possible and you can come and get your own supplies!!!!!!!!!
                      lol!

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                      • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post




                        I think that you'll find most warplanes will outrun a self propelled gun any day,
                        that said an arty round will out run any ctr team or infantry man, so lets pack it all in cos its all terribly futile...

                        so who's with me screw war, i'm for tea and crumpets!
                        But there's no danger
                        It's a professional career
                        Though it could be arranged
                        With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear
                        If you're out of luck you're out of work
                        We could send you to johannesburg.

                        (Elvis Costello, Olivers Army)

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                        • A nice "small" tracked SPH from Singapore, Primus

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSPH_Primus



                          :wink:
                          Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                          Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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